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Hi OK so things are moving on and developing and XBMC is no longer XBMC, which is reasonable XBMC has also become a foundation, much like the Mozilla foundation - although maybe not yet as wealthy.

However I think that one of the things I would like to see for the future of XBMC is a move away from the amateur (and often extremely illicit) apps that are supplied via the XBMC community. Fair enough that the XBMC foundation should have a liberal attitude to users supplying these apps, but why should they be an end in themselves?

Currently the majority of XBMC apps are of a very poor quality. Netflix or LoveFilm this isn't. If you only care about stealing movies this system is for you. But if you want quality apps like Flickr, Facebook, Twitter etc, XBMC will disappoint. What apps there are qualify as barely adequate.

I know this started out as amateur project. But people grow up. I was around since before XBMC developers described the possibility of XBMC running on anything more than the original old XBox as "unthinkable".

Illicit apps that download pirated content are fine, I don't really care about this (as this is what most XBMC apps seem to do), but ultimately they may damage the reputation of the foundation, particularly if this is all XBMC does. As strange as it may seem to some people, large numbers of ordinary people are not interested in accessing pirated content. They see themselves as honest and preferring to make honest choices.

So if I were to say what I would like to see as the biggest change for the future, it is the provision of quality apps (and perhaps an app store) in XBMC. You guys might think it's a crazy idea, but I will bet you every last dollar you have if you go to any of these large companies, they will flock to try to help you with development for apps for their platforms (and money too for that matter.)

You already have a vast audience - and next to Microsoft Media centre, XBMC (or Kodi) is probably the most used Media Centre software in the world. Why exactly shouldn't the foundation earn revenue from this, and at the same time vastly improve the XBMC user experience? As what I assume is a charitable foundation there is no limit to the good that could be done with the money that is made.

So as things go, this think is the biggest change I would like to see. Smile
I don't see any apps on xbmc.org that download pirated content. where are you getting your apps from?

On an aside, I've read eventually XBMC may be going to a binary plugin/addon system. That should open up room for the actual content providers to provide official apps that can not be ripped off. Until then, there will be no OFFICIAL netflix or whatever plugin.
there are no "xbmc apps" besides xbmc/kodi itself. What you are talking about are plugins, which are currently just python scripts. Big content providers will probably never provide official plugins for kodi, because we don't care about their DRM crap.
(2014-09-11, 19:40)wsnipex Wrote: [ -> ]there are no "xbmc apps" besides xbmc/kodi itself. What you are talking about are plugins, which are currently just python scripts. Big content providers will probably never provide official plugins for kodi, because we don't care about their DRM crap.

I thought moving towards binary add-ons would enable this to happen if a content provider cared to develop an add-on.
(2014-09-11, 19:40)wsnipex Wrote: [ -> ]there are no "xbmc apps" besides xbmc/kodi itself. What you are talking about are plugins, which are currently just python scripts. Big content providers will probably never provide official plugins for kodi, because we don't care about their DRM crap.

I think the old DRM topic, particularly in the case of online content is probably old and buried. Moreover in the case of XBMC, the argument is probably one for the continued ability to download illicit content.

Who really, in their right mind anyway bothers sitting for hours ripping content just to play on XBMC?

I'm not against illicit content. Fair enough, have your DRM free downloaded stuff, but no one is seriously going to argue with Netflix (or whomever) that when you rent a movie from them, you should be allowed to do anything you want with it. That argument was good maybe 10 years ago but since then we have moved almost wholesale away from physical media to streaming content - a trend that is only likely to continue. The world has changed. This augment now seems immature. We need to accept that things are different and move on. Hopefully I will live long enough to see XBMC change and recognise this new reality too.

I don't really think there is a vast body of people who will argue against having access to quality applications. In fact there is a much more vast market of untapped honest users who would almost certainly welcome this. Those who object may wish to continue accessing illicit media sources. Should this be the case, I say good luck to you. I really genuinely don't object. But in the long term, hopefully it should be a matter of choice - and it should also be a matter of choice for those users who would prefer not to do this.

But if the Kodi development team have dug their heels in on the point of DRM, then it looks like long term stagnation can be the only outcome for this project. I repeat - and I think the evidence is overwhelming for this, that when you give users the choice of quality apps (or in this case 'scripts') for XBMC and off access to a large body of legit content at reasonable prices, the vast majority of users will prefer this over illicit sources. It is as I said, almost certainly exclusively a symptom of a lack of choice.
(2014-09-11, 20:12)raid517 Wrote: [ -> ]And before I'm asked, I can't remember the name of the utility that downloaded all of these apps. I believe I found it in the official repositories.
definitely not

We try to make our official addons work well, but anything can ofc be improved. Just do not make the mistake of mixing official and non official addons like those listed above.
Notice that that "utility" you mention. DID NOT COME FROM HERE.

So that argument aside, here is the real issue.

Content providers do not like people using their service the way it wasn't intended. Period, end, stop. So you say, why can't you just write an "app" that lets us view Netflix without jumping through hoops, its because Netflix doesn't want you watching it that way. As of right now, if Netflix were to write a python plugin that allowed a seamless integration with XBMC, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Because there goes their DRM that they hold on to so tightly.
Just a note to raid 517 I have ripped all my movie and music files over the years that I play exclusively on Kodi. I am possitive that I am in no means alone. As for streaming content being the future, I still have to be convinced of this. There still needs to be massive improvement on broadband speeds to stream high quality digital content. I have a regular download speed of 30mbs but whenever I stream from official sites I can still get buffer problems and that's just not good enough. I love watching my blu's at full quality with dts- master sound. That is just not possible with any site. . .
(2014-09-11, 21:21)mrhyde1969 Wrote: [ -> ]Just a note to raid 517 I have ripped all my movie and music files over the years that I play exclusively on Kodi. I am possitive that I am in no means alone. As for streaming content being the future, I still have to be convinced of this. There still needs to be massive improvement on broadband speeds to stream high quality digital content. I have a regular download speed of 30mbs but whenever I stream from official sites I can still get buffer problems and that's just not good enough. I love watching my blu's at full quality with dts- master sound. That is just not possible with any site. . .

Yes but I think you will find yourself in the minority over time. Spotify, Dezzer, Netflix, LoveFilm (in the UK), there are dozens upon dozens of these services already, most of which, despite the problems you list, have proved spectacularly successful - and that number is increasing exponentially on a weekly basis.

Also how exactly did the Mozilla foundation become so wealthy and come to be seen as a force for good in the world? Arguably they have stayed largely 'pure' and true to their ideals, despite the fact that they have entered into many commercial alliances, with a vast array of big companies and organisations. I am a big believer in the concept that you never know what a man (or a company) will say until you ask them.
I was with the no DRM argument (and still am in my heart) since from when the argument first started. But my head tells me that the world really has changed. The movie industry and the entertainment industry as a whole will never give up their DRM. It is fine an idealistic (and probably a little naive) to hope they would, but they won't and that's the reality. Ultimately as I said I couldn't care less about the welfare of the entertainments industry. This isn't my fight and has nothing to do with me. What concerns me is simply the quality of the XBMC experience and what it could be. So Netflix say no (in your estimation), however ultimately there doesn't seem to be much difference between watching Netflix in a wrapper type interface on a smart TV, than there is in watching it on a SmartTV, so who knows what they would say. I think until you ask you can never know these things. But even if they did say no, there are other companies and other organisations who might be willing to participate. Minds are often changed by success.

I think its great that you have all of the necessary time to rip all of your own media, but as I said I suspect you constitute the minority. Don't Netflix allow movies to be fully downloaded before watching them though? I think they would object to buffering issues for their service too. I can't say as I don't use it, although I have used other UK based equivalents.

I used to also be an MP3 nut. I have over 2.6TB of MP3s, so as you can see my concerns are not of a 'moral' nature. But since getting Spotify, it has been over 8 months since I last listened to a locally stored MP3. Having a choice changed my habits substantially. I think its fair to say given my own experiences with streaming media, that I am a streaming.convert. You are right that XBMC was originally conceived of as a way to play locally stored content. But streaming is changing on a daily basis - and even if the infrastructure might not be fully there yet, I think you can bet, given the technological trends of the last 25 years, that eventually it will be. So what I am talking about is what might be the future of XBMC as this new reality unfolds? It's just a discussion, but hopefully probably a useful one.
So basically you just want something that has most of the popular (legit)streaming sites available at the touch of a button?
hint... android.
Why is it xbmc's problem if everyone joins the drm waggon? I doubt that anyone on team xbmc has any issues with a netflix addon. It is netflix that has an issue with 3rd party software playing their content. Same for spotify et. al. You should complain at their homepage. It is their choice, not xbmc's.

What you want is the freedom to access the content the way you want it. That is the idea behind xbmc.
Drm is a system to prevent users from accessing the content the way they want it, because the content provider doesn't trust YOU!

DRM and open source doesn't work. DRM and xbmc doesn't work.
Again I would tend to put these most avid objections down to a degree of naivety and a desire to be able to keep consuming content from illicit sources. I have, as I have said repeatedly, no intellectual or moral care or interest in this. I'm not certain if I can emphasize this enough. I really, genuinely don't care. What concerns me is purely the quality of the XBMC experience.

OK fair enough, some folks have still got some possibly legitimate bee in their bonnet over DRM. But to me all of these arguments sound very 2005-2010. The landscape has changed. DRM is a living breathing daily reality in one way or another for most people. Moreover as I said previously, the only way the entertainment industry will en-mass give up their DRM, is if you ever manage to rip it out of their cold, clammy dead hands. It isn't going to happen - and no amount of wishing it away will change this. So like Mozilla do and other large foundations do, you find a way to adapt and deal with it, while remaining true to your principals. How do you think they got so rich? Clearly this has been the result of countless examples of collaboration with industry and commercial sources. Sure they get criticised for it from time to time, but most people would still agree they remain a force for positive change in the world. If you are really going to be like the Mozilla foundation, I think you have to probably come to understand somewhat what it means to live in a grown up adult world. There are plenty of SOB's out there who are just in it to make money and many unsavoury types of human beings. But that's just the way it is. That's how its always been. I think the OSS movement started out very idealistic, but with the likes of Ubuntu and its many commercial alliances, OSS is probably growing up a little too.

I like the idealism of OSS. But like all idealism (without exception) if it shows no flexibility, then ultimately it is probably likely to prove impractical. In the old days the OSS idealists really did believe that what they were doing would one day change the world and that eventually mass scale adoption would become inevitable. Now I think a more mature perspective has developed, where most OSS types are simply happy with the idea of trying to make the existing world a better place. Of course that existing world will always contain things that you might not fully like, but there we are. Welcome to reality.

Oh and BTW this isn't a 'complaint' its a discussion. This is a discussion forum. There are several threads here inviting discussion of the possible future of Kodi. For me this is just one of the possible futures it could take. Where else in any case after this has this project got to go? Beyond interlace and software fixes and tweaks, my XBMC experience has (overall) remained unchanged for longer than I can remember. Is the whole project just going to sit in the same place more or less forever? I think it would be very sad if that were the case. Indeed if this were the case, I would predict that in maybe less than 10 years (XBMC) Kodi will have been vastly superseded by the then existing technology.

So maybe its a matter of how to stay relevant and current, in light of emerging technological innovation.
Firstly let me point you to this post

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=202248


Secondly, I don't see the problem everyone has with DRM media or someone like Netflix creating an app for Kodi. Maybe someone can enlighten me?

I think the more options Kodi has the better. I would love a way to watch legal movies/shows from within Kodi. Currently I cant, meaning if I want a single media option in my house I have to look at the other illegal ways to watch them within Kodi, which for something described as the 'one and only media center' is not a good virtue.

Sure I could use an android device like someone pointed out above, but then I cant use the PVR functions, so again it wont be my sole media device.

What I would really like is a way to watch/add the new sky now subscriptions (streamed live channels) within the PVR live tv, or even any other subscription based tv so I can include premium services within my freeview and freesat EPG Guide without having to change apps etc.
Which is why XBMC/Kodi is developed and controlled by a group of like minded individuals who believe in open source, rather than the will of the wavering mass public. We will not compromise our values for your entertainment. Period. This is our baby, not a product that has to meet with your approval or complete with other projects. It has always been that way, and it will always be that way.

Ask Boxee how well it went with embracing DRM and compromising open source standards. Oh wait, they're gone.
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