Hello Devs,
Any plans on making changes to live tv experience in the next version of Kodi?
Thanks,
If yes, I would like to make a few requests. I am starting to make Kodi the complete media center experience in my home. Got rid of all set to top boxes and currently using a combo of Windows Media Center and XBMC. WMC experience for live tv is just great. Doesn't need any tutorial. It's simple and close enough to a cable box experience. I would like to get the same experience with Kodi.
Requests
1. Faster channel switching speed improvement. (been discussed in quite a few threads.)
2. Keep a copy of the server EPG locally and compare it to the server at startup and modify only changes if necessary. (I think that should fix the long getting channels wait at xbmc startup.)
3. Bring the EGP/Guide Menu using the up or down arrow while in live tv full screen. A smaller guide box for that feature would be greatly appreciated.
4. Use the channel buttons to change channels as well as the numeric keys.
5. Add the full screen button in a more visible place rather than the hidden toolbar. No one really knows it's there unless you already know it is there
6. Fix the long pause when switching from radio to epg. May not notice it in fast computer but its visible in low powered devices. It's a 10 second freeze.
7. Down show the missing icon place holder in channels (that's from the girlfriend. Shes says it is visually ugly.)
8. Subtitles support in live tv.
1. I think that's always being looked at to improve when possible on Kodi's side :)
2. I thought that was already done? I think it's even enabled by default to use a local EPG DB.
Not sure about 3, 4, and 5, but I do know a number of UI improvements are going in.
7. would be a skin option I think.
not sure about 8
(2014-09-19, 19:35)Ned Scott Wrote: [ -> ]1. I think that's always being looked at to improve when possible on Kodi's side 
2. I thought that was already done? I think it's even enabled by default to use a local EPG DB.
Not sure about 3, 4, and 5, but I do know a number of UI improvements are going in.
7. would be a skin option I think.
not sure about 8
2. Partially there. But let's say i launch xbmc and it says it's pulling the channels and epg from the server. After 2 minutes I close xbmc and launch it again. It will do the same exact thing. Technically it shouldn't have to since nothing really changed.
I honestly think these features would give Kodi a pleasant live tv experience. I don't have any complaints about anything else because XBMC is incomparable when it comes to everything else but not when it comes to live tv.
1. Think that depends more on the backend than Kodi.
2. Agree, but this needs addressing in the pvr addon rather than core I think.
3. Think thats a skin thing.
4 Could be core or addon.
5 Skin I think.
6 No idea. Backend issue ??
7 Down to user supplying icons if backend unable to supply them. (I know there is an option in Kodi to set a folder for them, but I have never got it to work !!)
8 I have subtitle support with TVHeadend - backend issue maybe ??
For #3 what I would like to see is the actual guide. Not whatever we have right now.
Press Up or Down an you get this
guide over the live tv screen or something like
that would of been golden.
I am using confluence which is the default skin for xbmc/kodi.
So when I asked for a better experience It's through core and skin. Once it's done in core or confluence the other skin will make the necessary modifications.
My two cents:
1. Some of the dependence is on the backend, however xbmc does a stream analysis (or some such) that causes a significant delay. On my testing its around 50% of the channel change time - but it varies by system. That's why margro distributes his custom xbmc builds for speeding up live tv channel changing, he is essentially turning off this analysis. The xbmc developers discussed putting this into gotham, but it didn't make the cut - and I have never been clear on what why that is (which is likely my fault for not digging deeper)
2. The EPG is stored locally, but it can be turned off (breezytm, make sure you have it set to store locally). Having said that though, Breezy is right, if you stop and restart xbmc two minutes later xbmc does query the database again - for no good reason imo. Its not up to the backend, because the backend has to respond when xbmc asks for epg data - if it doesn't the epg data will be left blank, even though xbmc has the data stored locally.
3. 4. 5. I don't know if its purely skin/setup related, but its definitely not backend related.
6. I'm not sure about this one either. Breezytm are you saying just switching to radio channels from tv channels has a delay? Or that starting the playback of a radio channel has a long delay? If its the later, its backend related.
7. I would like to see this too, but its a skin fix. Also the backend could influence it by enabling a generic channel icon (good idea actually - I think I'll do that).
8. Subtitles is a whole can of worms I haven't looked into, I know it doesn't work on my pvr solution (except on some European channels) and I know my lack of effort is to blame. However part of the reason I have been reluctant to tackle it is its not clear to me the support is there on the xbmc side (at least for ts files) - as I hear lots of complaints that say the problem is with xbmc. But I need to do my homework, so I am pleading ignorance.
Hey Krusty,
Glad you can join us.
(2014-09-20, 18:56)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]My two cents:
1. Some of the dependence is on the backend, however xbmc does a stream analysis (or some such) that causes a significant delay. On my testing its around 50% of the channel change time - but it varies by system. That's why margro distributes his custom xbmc builds for speeding up live tv channel changing, he is essentially turning off this analysis. The xbmc developers discussed putting this into gotham, but it didn't make the cut - and I have never been clear on what why that is (which is likely my fault for not digging deeper)
If my memory servers me correctly, I remember spoking to margro, personally, about forking his channel switching speed improvement in master and he replied back stating there were some videos add-on issues reported on the forums from users using his built. The users also reported the problems were not seen when using master. He also stated that he was tied up and wouldn't find the time to figure out what the root cause was. He contacted kodi dev about it as well and they wanted everything documented, which he doesn't have.
(2014-09-20, 18:56)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]2. The EPG is stored locally, but it can be turned off (breezytm, make sure you have it set to store locally). Having said that though, Breezy is right, if you stop and restart xbmc two minutes later xbmc does query the database again - for no good reason imo. Its not up to the backend, because the backend has to respond when xbmc asks for epg data - if it doesn't the epg data will be left blank, even though xbmc has the data stored locally.
You are absolutely correct. And yes I had 'EPG stored locally' enabled and realized it didn't seem to make a difference whether it was enabled or disabled so I disabled it. That's one last task my cpu has to handle
I proceed to do my research and found no realistic evidence that it actually speed the process. XMBC/Kodi persists on querying the remote database (the server) anyway even though the same exact content is stored locally. Doesn't make any sense to me but I am sure the dev who programmed it as his/her reasons.
(2014-09-20, 18:56)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]3. 4. 5. I don't know if its purely skin/setup related, but its definitely not backend related.
PseudoTV is a close as a setTopBox as Kodi can be and some of these limitations are still there. But I could be wrong. Honestly there aren't any skins out there that doesn't anything any different than confluence. They may look difference but the core features always remains.
(2014-09-20, 18:56)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]6. I'm not sure about this one either. Breezytm are you saying just switching to radio channels from tv channels has a delay? Or that starting the playback of a radio channel has a long delay? If its the later, its backend related.
I would like to be wrong about this but i've seen on every xbmc/kodi box I've ever used. Some are faster than other but it's always there. Scroll from TV channels > Radio Channels > EPG
see this
picture. It can easily be a backend response time issue.
(2014-09-20, 18:56)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]7. I would like to see this too, but its a skin fix. Also the backend could influence it by enabling a generic channel icon (good idea actually - I think I'll do that).
Great. I'll let the girlfriend know.
I am guessing every .pvr dev will have to do so themselves or can it really be fixed in or single location (core)? Also how do you have plan on leveraging that with each skin? I am curious.
(2014-09-20, 18:56)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]8. Subtitles is a whole can of worms I haven't looked into, I know it doesn't work on my pvr solution (except on some European channels) and I know my lack of effort is to blame. However part of the reason I have been reluctant to tackle it is its not clear to me the support is there on the xbmc side (at least for ts files) - as I hear lots of complaints that say the problem is with xbmc. But I need to do my homework, so I am pleading ignorance.
I've never read a post about this topic and xbmc doesn't get blamed for it. @
black_eagle is the first person I heard who got subtitles for live tv. Perhaps he can give us some insight.
2. I am surprised you are seeing the same load times independent of whether you store the epg locally. I think xbmc requests much lets data when it uses local storage, so it should go faster. It does for me at least (at least last I checked).
7. This is off topic for the thread, but since you asked: Right now xbmc requests channel icons from the backend, if the backend doesn't have an icon for a given channel it just leaves it blank. Then the xbmc skin uses whatever it uses for the case of 'no icon'. I'm proposing changing the backend so that, if a channel doesn't have an icon, it will send a 'generic' icon image that you can specify in the backend config.
(2014-09-20, 21:47)krustyreturns Wrote: [ -> ]2. I am surprised you are seeing the same load times independent of whether you store the epg locally. I think xbmc requests much lets data when it uses local storage, so it should go faster. It does for me at least (at least last I checked).
7. This is off topic for the thread, but since you asked: Right now xbmc requests channel icons from the backend, if the backend doesn't have an icon for a given channel it just leaves it blank. Then the xbmc skin uses whatever it uses for the case of 'no icon'. I'm proposing changing the backend so that, if a channel doesn't have an icon, it will send a 'generic' icon image that you can specify in the backend config.
2. In all fairness the last time I played around with the timing issue was before you implemented the client restrictions feature. I used to have about 630+ channels being pulled versus now Kodi clients only request roughly 30 to 40 channels. I will go head an enable it again. Maybe now I may notice the difference.
7. Okay. Gotcha.