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+---- Thread: Best Android (TV) - Kodi Box (/showthread.php?tid=186106)
RE: Best Android TV Box - Fist - 2015-08-07
AFTV is 59 pounds delivered today only in UK. That's a great deal for an STB that requires no second remote to make it usable.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Fist - 2015-08-07
(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote:(2015-08-05, 17:10)Fist Wrote: Fire TV has a better remote, Ethernet, wider selection of apps, twice the RAM, plus easy access to USB storage.
My money would go that way.
The only thing the Nexus Player has going for it is you can download Kodi from the App store. In practice, that's not real important unless you're technically challenged.
The Google Nexus Player has way more software support than the Fire TV. It is the flagship device for Android TV. Amazon's app store is much more limited, and even moreso when you are looking for Fire TV approved apps.
Android boxes don't really see any difference between 1 or 2 GB of RAM. Some people won't ever see any difference between 512MB or 2GB of ram for Kodi usage. It might be important if you do a lot of Android gaming, but most of of the high-end Android games do just fine with 1GB of RAM.
Ethernet is easily added from a $10 adapter, but the wifi on the Nexus Player is amazing (and I normally hate wifi). Even better, you can get a $10 USB hub that includes the ethernet port: http://amzn.com/B0105URLHE . Since the Nexus Player is currently listed at $80, adding the ethernet/hub makes it pretty comparable to the Fire TV in my mind. I already had to add a USB hub to my Fire TV, since it only had one USB port, so I don't see it as a major hurdle for ether device.
Regarding remote controls, I would never judge a box based on the included remote control. Especially when both can easily use a massive selection of other remotes, including using each other's remotes
The Fire TV is a lot more of a pain to mess with. You can't change the launcher (although FireStarter is a great work around), you don't have full access to the Android OS, less bluetooth/USB devices supported, and less chance of getting proper video refresh rate switching (which is needed to get rid of that slight judder people sometimes see, depending on the video and TV used), etc.
The Nexus Player supports more video codecs, such as HEVC and VP9, has a much better default launcher, and is cheaper (especially if you don't need ethernet or USB drives), and is going to get more love and attention than most Android set top boxes out there due to being the flagship Android TV device for developers (not to mention Google's own support).
They're both good boxes, but I would not buy a Fire TV again. I would buy a Nexus Player.
Nexus Player doesn't even have catchup TV, such as the BBC Iplayer or Tunein Radio in the UK. Maybe where you live Android TV has some advantage but elsewhere it's rubbish. Most of the decent apps on the brand new Android Sony TVs are outside the Android system. These same apps are all on Amazon. If you buy the Nexus Player you get none.
Loading Kodi couldn't be easier, thanks to ADBFire. As easy as installing any Windows program. Sure, the Play Store carries one build of Kodi. But you still need some other software like ADB Shield to manage the Userdata.
The AFTV is not necessarily more expensive (today in the UK, for example) but you get a top class remote for that compared to the one you'll have to throw away that comes with the Nexus Player.
Head to head, to me the AFTV comes out on top. If you want to be pickier, get a Shield, which has better specs than both, though still lacks the software.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Ned Scott - 2015-08-08
Ignoring for a moment that it's still true that Google Play for Android TV still has more apps than Amazon's app store for For TV by a wide margin, AND that the only people to blame for not being in Google Play are the people who don't submit their apps to there (I'm looking at you, BBC)...
If sideloading is so acceptable to you on the Fire TV then why is it suddenly not acceptable on the Nexus Player? That's a fairly huge double standard in your argument.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Fist - 2015-08-08
(2015-08-08, 09:06)Ned Scott Wrote: Ignoring for a moment that it's still true that Google Play for Android TV still has more apps than Amazon's app store for For TV by a wide margin, AND that the only people to blame for not being in Google Play are the people who don't submit their apps to there (I'm looking at you, BBC)...
If sideloading is so acceptable to you on the Fire TV then why is it suddenly not acceptable on the Nexus Player? That's a fairly huge double standard in your argument.
Because the apps are written native for Amazon (you don't have to sideload them). Sure you can sideload some Android apps onto the Nexus Player but they're not optimized for a remote. The experience is vastly inferior.
You can get up and running straight out of the box with one Kodi sideload with the AFTV. That's not the case with Android TV. It's a mess, albeit not as bad as the pure Android experience.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Ned Scott - 2015-08-08
Fair enough
RE: Best Android TV Box - Tinwarble - 2015-08-08
(2015-08-07, 12:38)Fist Wrote: Nexus Player doesn't even have catchup TV, such as the BBC Iplayer or Tunein Radio in the UK.
I can't speak for the Nexus Player or the UK, but on the Shield ATV Tunein Radio is available. The only thing is that you do have to go to the Play Store and push it to the SATV, but that's seems to be Google's fault. But I don't know why it wouldn't be available also on the Nexus Player or in the UK unless Tunein did something that keeps that from happening.
As a matter of fact, there are a lot more apps available then what gets presented to the Play Store app on Android TV devices. But again, this is Google's fault for doing a piss poor job of getting apps compatible with Android TV to present to the Play Store app on these devices.
The reverse is true too, such as you can't install ES File Explorer directly to the Fire TV, it has to be sideload, where as it's native to Android TV and can be installed directly from the Play Store.
Quote:You can get up and running straight out of the box with one Kodi sideload with the AFTV. That's not the case with Android TV. It's a mess, albeit not as bad as the pure Android experience.
I'm not sure what you mean by this since on Android TV you can install Kodi directly from the Play Store. And once installed it's up and running........no fuss, no mess. Again though, this is with the SATV, the NP could be a different story.
RE: Best Android TV Box - ChipsAhoy - 2015-08-08
Are the Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Video apps on the Nexus player as remote control friendly as they are on the FireTV? This has been my objection to many hardware solutions I've tried, and one area where I feel the FTV excels.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Ned Scott - 2015-08-08
Netflix and Hulu should be nearly the same versions, IIRC. Amazon Prime Video is not in the Android TV compatibility list (just tablets and phones), but I think that's likely because Amazon doesn't want to hurt their Fire TV sales too much ;)
RE: Best Android TV Box - Tinwarble - 2015-08-08
(2015-08-08, 16:43)ChipsAhoy Wrote: Are the Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Video apps on the Nexus player as remote control friendly as they are on the FireTV? This has been my objection to many hardware solutions I've tried, and one area where I feel the FTV excels.
As Ned stated the Netfilx and Hulu apps are virtually identical, however, the Netflix (ninja) app was first available for Android TV well before it was made available for the Fire TV.
By the way, it's the Netflix (ninja) app because the standard Android app is “org.chromium.content_shell_apk” as where the Android TV/Fire TV app is "com.netflix.ninja".
Anyway, as for Amazon Instant Video, there is a Android TV app (or at least one that did work) but it seems to be an exclusive on Sony TVs. http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-player/general/sony-tv-apps-amazon-instant-video-apk-t3107309
RE: Best Android TV Box - fredphoesh - 2015-08-09
Nvidia Shield Android TV is staggeringly good.
I''ve sold my tronsmart drako (pain in the butt) and the SATV is way faster and more capable than my minix neo x8h plus...
Huge thumbs up for this device.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Fist - 2015-08-09
The point I was making about sideloading Kodi to the Fire TV is for versions other than the current release, such as a nightly. Is the Play Store going to release betas and alphas or stick with the final?
Apart from Adbfire, it's also very easy to push any Android app (such as ES File Explorer) from your phone/tablet to your AFTV with apps such as Apps2Fire. Bearing in mind, the remote experience does not compare favorably to the native Amazon apps.
Also, if you compare the Amazon and pure Android apps side by side you'll find other differences, some substantial. Tunein Radio, for example, has no ads. Ministry of Sound has several more stations.
I also find the build quality, especially, the remote to be much more pleasing.
By next year, Android TV might catch up, but right now, buy yourself a brand new Sony TV and, other than Kodi, you'll be watching apps on a separate system. The same system that's on the older models.
In summary, buy an AFTV and you get mature apps, such as catch up TV, right now. Buy a Nexus Player and get the promise of the same apps coming some time soon. But if being able to download Kodi from the app store a couple of times a year trumps all else, get a Nexus Player. If you want 4K, and don't care so much about apps or maybe live in the USA, then Shield TV.
RE: Best Android TV Box - Tinwarble - 2015-08-09
(2015-08-09, 10:27)Fist Wrote: The point I was making about sideloading Kodi to the Fire TV is for versions other than the current release, such as a nightly. Is the Play Store going to release betas and alphas or stick with the final?
That's up to Team Kodi since they are the ones that determine the version on the Play Store, not Google.
(2015-08-09, 10:27)Fist Wrote: Apart from Adbfire, it's also very easy to push any Android app (such as ES File Explorer) from your phone/tablet to your AFTV with apps such as Apps2Fire. Bearing in mind, the remote experience does not compare favorably to the native Amazon apps.
Yes, but that isn't the point. You said there were apps that are available on the Fire TV without the need of sideloading, but as I stated the reverse is also true.
(2015-08-09, 10:27)Fist Wrote: Also, if you compare the Amazon and pure Android apps side by side you'll find other differences, some substantial. Tunein Radio, for example, has no ads. Ministry of Sound has several more stations.
Not sure about your point here. Android TV apps are not the same as "pure Android apps". Android TV apps are virtually identical to Fire TV apps. The Netflix app on the Fire TV for example, is the same as the Netflix app for Android TV (although it is a higher version number), in fact that version was available for ATV months before it was for the Fire TV.
(2015-08-09, 10:27)Fist Wrote: I also find the build quality, especially, the remote to be much more pleasing.
I probably wouldn't argue with you there, but since you can pick a AFTV remote and use it with other devices like the NP or Shield ATV, don't see it as being that big of a deal.
(2015-08-09, 10:27)Fist Wrote: By next year, Android TV might catch up, but right now, buy yourself a brand new Sony TV and, other than Kodi, you'll be watching apps on a separate system. The same system that's on the older models.
Really, have you even used anything with Android TV. It already surpasses what can be done on the Fire TV, things like frame rate switching. And who would go out and by a new Sony TV (which by the way would be running Android TV) over buying a NP for $70 or a Shield Android TV for $199 (which comes with a game controller).
I have a Fire TV, Stick and a SATV and will tell you that the Shield will eat the AFTV for lunch.
(2015-08-09, 10:27)Fist Wrote: In summary, buy an AFTV and you get mature apps, such as catch up TV, right now. Buy a Nexus Player and get the promise of the same apps coming some time soon. But if being able to download Kodi from the app store a couple of times a year trumps all else, get a Nexus Player. If you want 4K, and don't care so much about apps or maybe live in the USA, then Shield TV.
No, because some of those so called "mature apps" were developed for the Android TV first and then modified for the AFTV/Stick and the reverse is also true. So basically, the apps (if available for both) are virtually identical.
As for the getting the Shield if you don't care about apps, I know the AFTV just reached 2000 apps (although there's a difference in the number of available apps and the number of good apps, unless you're Ouya
) but I don't know how many are available for the Shield ATV. However, there are probably more apps then what most people will ever need and most of the major apps that are on the Fire TV are available for the SATV (maybe not UK apps, but then it's not launched there yet). Plus the SATV has or will have game apps that will never be available for the AFTV, like Doom 3, Talos Principal (both already released), Borderlands 2 & The Pre-Sequel and Metalgear Rising.Not to mention...........and to get back to Kodi.......unlike the AFTV, if you have a large library then SATV doesn't slow down, even running heavy skins.
RE: Best Android TV Box - NeoDuck - 2015-08-09
(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote: The Google Nexus Player has way more software support than the Fire TV. It is the flagship device for Android TV. Amazon's app store is much more limited, and even moreso when you are looking for Fire TV approved apps.
Android boxes don't really see any difference between 1 or 2 GB of RAM. Some people won't ever see any difference between 512MB or 2GB of ram for Kodi usage. It might be important if you do a lot of Android gaming, but most of of the high-end Android games do just fine with 1GB of RAM.
Can Android TV handle higher than 20mbps video?
(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote: Ethernet is easily added from a $10 adapter, but the wifi on the Nexus Player is amazing (and I normally hate wifi). Even better, you can get a $10 USB hub that includes the ethernet port: http://amzn.com/B0105URLHE . Since the Nexus Player is currently listed at $80, adding the ethernet/hub makes it pretty comparable to the Fire TV in my mind. I already had to add a USB hub to my Fire TV, since it only had one USB port, so I don't see it as a major hurdle for ether device.
Wired ethernet is FAR SUPERIOR than any WiFi. You're telling us that the GNP can get 100mbps wirelessly? Is the hub on the GNP USB 2.0 or USB 3.0?
(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote: Regarding remote controls, I would never judge a box based on the included remote control
I'm sorry but this is just stupid. Bluetooth paired remotes are FAR SUPERIOR to any WiFi remote. WiFi remotes always have a lag time when initially connecting...ALWAYS. And then, there's the fact that most people use their phones for tons of other shit, so there's the lag time in having it reconnect again. Then, there's the advantage of having a TACTILE remote, which means you don't have to look at the remote to use it. Try that with a touch screen based remote. Yet another downfall to touchscreen remotes are REPEAT KEYPRESSES. Try scrolling down through 2000+ movies with a touchscreen based remote.
The only thing I changed on my AFTV remote is that I modified one of the XML files so the "context menu" button toggles subtitles ON or OFF. This is not required to make the remote useable but it makes it a DREAM to use now.
The AFTV remote is one of the best things to happen to Kodi. There is no way in hell that any touch screen remote for Kodi works better, I've used ALL OF THEM.
(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote: The Fire TV is a lot more of a pain to mess with. You can't change the launcher (although FireStarter is a great work around), you don't have full access to the Android OS, less bluetooth/USB devices supported, and less chance of getting proper video refresh rate switching (which is needed to get rid of that slight judder people sometimes see, depending on the video and TV used), etc.
So what? People use the AFTV for running Kodi and the AFTV launcher almost never gets used. I'll give you the refresh rate issue. I hope it's fixed in the AFTV 2.
(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote: The Nexus Player supports more video codecs, such as HEVC and VP9, has a much better default launcher, and is cheaper (especially if you don't need ethernet or USB drives), and is going to get more love and attention than most Android set top boxes out there due to being the flagship Android TV device for developers (not to mention Google's own support).
They're both good boxes, but I would not buy a Fire TV again. I would buy a Nexus Player.
The GNP does support 2 more codecs but who gives a crap about those codecs? How much of the stuff that people download are going to be using HEVC or VP9? 0%
No way in hell. The AFTV blows the GNP out of the water as a Kodi device.
That said, here are the REAL ISSUES facing the AFTV:
- No gigabit ethernet
- No USB 3.0
- Gimped onboard storage, 8GB seriously? I need at least 16GB. 32GB-64GB would be better. My library is almost at 3000 videos.
- No SD or micro-SD support
- Support for remux bluray rips
- Can't root latest boxes shipping from Amazon
RE: Best Android TV Box - technisol - 2015-08-10
My toy's better 'n your toy... Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah. ;-)
I don't think the perfect android box exists, yet anyway, maybe never. Engineering is about the art of compromise. You give up features for cost, you include features because the competition has them and they are desired, you try to innovate and do things better than what came before your turn, you stare into your crystal ball and try to figure out which encoding, or more accurately decoding method will be most adopted in the next round, ad infinitum. The problem with engineering is that at some point you have to make those compromises and finalize a design, even eventually with software, but that is often a mite easier to "fix" as long as the hardware will let you get away with the changes you need to make when you figure how you could have done more.
I think the newer line of Amlogic devices coming out with HEVC 10 bit hardware decoding are a great example of a feature one will probably want next. Many want the 24FPS issues resolved and passthrough audio always seems to be good for a bit o' screwing around on a new model. Are those all a must yet? By the time the boxes come out with HEVC 10 support maybe there'll be a new format that seems likely to be the next one of choice. Fortune telling is a bitch. You know, historically, the myths all point to it never working out so well for the soothsayers... Good thing they don't usually push the classics so much at engineering schools. ;-)
RE: Best Android TV Box - Ned Scott - 2015-08-10
(2015-08-09, 16:05)NeoDuck Wrote: Can Android TV handle higher than 20mbps video?
Yes
Quote:Wired ethernet is FAR SUPERIOR than any WiFi. You're telling us that the GNP can get 100mbps wirelessly? Is the hub on the GNP USB 2.0 or USB 3.0?
The Nexus Player can get above 100 mbps wirelessly. It's using 802.11AC.
The USB port on the Nexus Player is USB 2.0. The wireless on the Nexus Player is actually faster than 100 meg ethernet. No HTPC actually needs gig ethernet except maybe those who really get into 4k, and even then things like HEVC might not make it required for most videos.
Quote:(2015-08-06, 04:02)Ned Scott Wrote: Regarding remote controls, I would never judge a box based on the included remote control
I'm sorry but this is just stupid. Bluetooth paired remotes are FAR SUPERIOR to any WiFi remote. WiFi remotes always have a lag time when initially connecting...ALWAYS. And then, there's the fact that most people use their phones for tons of other shit, so there's the lag time in having it reconnect again. Then, there's the advantage of having a TACTILE remote, which means you don't have to look at the remote to use it. Try that with a touch screen based remote. Yet another downfall to touchscreen remotes are REPEAT KEYPRESSES. Try scrolling down through 2000+ movies with a touchscreen based remote.
What the heck are you talking about? I never mentioned wifi remotes. I never mentioned using a phone or a touch screen. I am specifically talking about bluetooth remotes and RF remotes. You can buy a Fire TV remote and use it on the Google Nexus Player. You can use any Android compatible bluetooth remote, with the tactile buttons and all that good stuff, on both the Fire TV and Nexus Player. They are equal in that regard.
Again, no one is talking about wifi or touch screens. No one.
Quote:So what? People use the AFTV for running Kodi and the AFTV launcher almost never gets used. I'll give you the refresh rate issue. I hope it's fixed in the AFTV 2.
There's a lot more functionality that is missing from the Fire TV due to it being locked down. If you don't need that additional functionality, that's fine, but "so what" is not an argument in favor of the Fire TV.
It also means that Amazon always has the option (regardless of it being practical or not) to turn off app sideloading and forcibly remove Kodi from their hardware. It's unlikely that will ever happen, but it is still possible, and that doesn't sit well with some people.
Quote:The GNP does support 2 more codecs but who gives a crap about those codecs? How much of the stuff that people download are going to be using HEVC or VP9? 0%
I'm going to try and be nice about this, but it's hard to put this any other way. You are wrong. You are so wrong that it hurts. I'm not saying that HEVC or VP9 support is vital right now, but they are being deployed at an incredible rate by both users who rip things and commercial services. HEVC, in particular, is a huge deal.
Even if you don't need it, again, "so what" is not an argument in favor of the Amazon Fire TV. The lack of a feature that you personally don't use means nothing to other people.
None of the reasons you've posted blow the Nexus Player out of the water. At least the other guy mentioned BBC app support, which is a fair point for some users. However, nothing you've said shows that one box is better than the other. None of it. Why you felt so strongly about this to rant in a huge ass post like that just blows my mind. Your entire argument comes down to this:
"so what if the Google Nexus Player has more features".
Such blind devotion to one stupid android box over another stupid android box is not something to be proud of. It suggests that you lack critical thinking skills, and that you've simply jumped on the bandwagon for one device or another, like some kind of mindless fanboy.