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+--- Thread: Port XBMC to PS3 (PlayStation 3) to run on Linux ("Other OS") or natively on GameOS? (/showthread.php?tid=21849)
- poofyhairguy - 2011-01-14
cassius Wrote:I think it would be reasonable to assume there are atleast 5000 PS3 users who are aware of xbmc and would like it running on their console. If we could get that 5000 to each donated $5 would that be enough to get a port going?
If you are gonna raise money, raise money to pay some Xorg developers to get the open source Nvidia driver to the point that it can support XBMC's interface:
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto
That is the main holdup. A PowerPC port of XBMC already exists.
- milk - 2011-01-14
poofyhairguy Wrote:If you are gonna raise money, raise money to pay some Xorg developers to get the open source Nvidia driver to the point that it can support XBMC's interface:
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto
That is the main holdup. A PowerPC port of XBMC already exists.
There was already progress made on the PS3 RSX. That is why Sony took the "Other OS" option away from the PS3. But now that the PS3 Root key has been made public, RSX access is back in business.
To Make it more clear: The root keys in the PS3 are hardware based. Sony cannot patch this! That is why they are freaking out right now. Plus, I believe jailbreaking the PS3 will be legal the same way jailbreaking the iphone was made legal. IT IS MY HARDWARE. I have no intentions to pirate games. The problem is the stock media capabilites that come with the PS3 sucks compared to XBMC!
But here is the hidden headline, and you can take this to the bank: Remember the boxee box? It's done.
I will now have a PS3 that does XBMC, netflix, blueray, emulators, and whatever else homebrew I desire. and I can buy this PS3 used with a 2 year warranty from Gamestop for as much as the boxee box.
Folks, there are a lot of people on this forum that don't want the boxee box to go away.
HURRY UP! CLOSE THIS THREAD! DELETE IT FROM EXISTANCE!
- poofyhairguy - 2011-01-14
milk Wrote:There was already progress made on the PS3 RSX. That is why Sony took the "Other OS" option away from the PS3. But now that the PS3 Root key has been made public, RSX access is back in business.
It doesn't matter if you have access to the RSX. I had full access to it back in 2007 when someone found a hole in the Other OS hypervisor. Didn't help me then, doesn't help you today.
The problem is that the mighty RSX is actually just an ancient Nvidia 7800 GTX. Since Nvidia ONLY releases their drivers for x86, the RSX is crippled to the point of near uselessness due to a lacking of a driver, even if you have full "access."
The only solution is for the Nvidia open source driver to get updated to the point where it can do the job, but that is something that is WAY harder to do then getting a compiled PowerPC compatible version of XBMC.
But you don't seem interested in the actual facts that prevent XBMC on the PS3. You seem content in thinking you are sounding smart by telling all us naysayers that "IT CAN BE DONE!!!"
- milk - 2011-01-15
poofyhairguy Wrote:It doesn't matter if you have access to the RSX. I had full access to it back in 2007 when someone found a hole in the Other OS hypervisor. Didn't help me then, doesn't help you today.
The problem is that the mighty RSX is actually just an ancient Nvidia 7800 GTX. Since Nvidia ONLY releases their drivers for x86, the RSX is crippled to the point of near uselessness due to a lacking of a driver, even if you have full "access."
The only solution is for the Nvidia open source driver to get updated to the point where it can do the job, but that is something that is WAY harder to do then getting a compiled PowerPC compatible version of XBMC.
But you don't seem interested in the actual facts that prevent XBMC on the PS3. You seem content in thinking you are sounding smart by telling all us naysayers that "IT CAN BE DONE!!!"
Progress on the Nvidia open source driver that supports RSX and it's 3d capabilities was being made. That is one of the reasons why Sony removed "Other OS". Now that access to RSX is back for good, driver development is back in business.
I am sorry to hit you with the bad news.... or good news..... depending on your perspective.
- poofyhairguy - 2011-01-15
milk Wrote:Progress on the Nvidia open source driver that supports RSX and it's 3d capabilities was being made. That is one of the reasons why Sony removed "Other OS". Now that access to RSX is back for good, driver development is back in business.
Um, there was no need for the RSX to be unlocked for progress on the open source Nvidia driver to be made. In fact, to my knowledge NONE of its development was done on the RSX up to this point. ANY 7xxx series Nvidia card can be used.
The problem with the open source driver is that it is taking reverse engineering to create the driver since Nvidia won't release any specs. Because Nvidia's Linux drivers have been pretty decent there hasn't be a huge motivation to make the open source Nvidia driver 100% functional.
Now will the opening of the PS3 inspire more development? Maybe. Maybe not. I am a Xorg junkie myself, so I have kept track of the nouveau driver over the years. When I tried it late last year it wasn't enough for XBMC, but once Gallium3D stabilizes I imagine it will be able to handle at least some lighter skins.
The main problem is that on the whole planet there are maybe 50 people who can fix up that driver to the point where it is usable enough for XBMC, and none of those people are on this forum. If folks really want XBMC on the PS3 it is time to roll up your sleeves, start filling some Xorg bug reports, and find a way to help the developers get that driver to a stable enough point to be usable.
But hey, you are here to spread your agenda! Don't let your lack of any knowledge about what needs to actually happen stand in your way! Right?
- darkscout - 2011-01-15
Quote:I love this thread though. XBMC WILL NEVER BE ON THE PS3! HA HA.
You completely fail at reading comprehension.
No, that's not what we're saying.
1) Devs will not work on the PS3. They're just not going to do it. THe PS3, the Boxee Box, the Popcorn Hour, AppleTV2. The devs aren't going to waste their time on them.
2) However, YOU are more than free to do what ever you want with the code. Davilla keeps hinting at XBMC ATV2, but that's his personal side project. IF it works, I'm sure the devs would more than glad to accept the patches.
3) These threads are getting old. Everyone points out "but it's so easy. Cat is out of the bag, nothing to block it now!" but refuse to actually do anything other than beg the Dev. I think one even stated they don't even have the hardware to test on.
There honestly needs to be a never ending dialog box anytime a new member signs up.
"There will be no discussion of XBMC on the Boxeee Box, Popcorn Hour or PS3. Also, don't buy an ATI video card." [Ok] [Cancel]
"No really. If you post a thread about the PS3 we will find you. And Really Nvidia is that much better" [Ok] [Cancel]
"Last warning before you can actually post. NO THREADS ABOUT PS3. Intel GPUs suck too. Stick with Nvidia". [Ok] [Cancel]
I think that'd clean up a large number of threads.
- topfs2 - 2011-01-15
darkscout Wrote:There honestly needs to be a never ending dialog box anytime a new member signs up.
"There will be no discussion of XBMC on the Boxeee Box, Popcorn Hour or PS3. Also, don't buy an ATI video card." [Ok] [Cancel]
"No really. If you post a thread about the PS3 we will find you. And Really Nvidia is that much better" [Ok] [Cancel]
"Last warning before you can actually post. NO THREADS ABOUT PS3. Intel GPUs suck too. Stick with Nvidia". [Ok] [Cancel]
I think that'd clean up a large number of threads.
Dont forget the
"Have you supplied a Debug Log" [YES][NO]
"And it is real important its on pastebin or equivivalent" [OK][Cancel]
"Debug Log, read WIKI how to acquire it. If you have no Debug Log you are wasting time, are you sure" [YES][NO]
- cassius - 2011-01-15
poofyhairguy Wrote:If you are gonna raise money, raise money to pay some Xorg developers to get the open source Nvidia driver to the point that it can support XBMC's interface:
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/GalliumHowto
That is the main holdup. A PowerPC port of XBMC already exists.
Thats a good point phg, I may just look into the logistics of doing this.
- cassius - 2011-01-15
darkscout Wrote:You completely fail at reading comprehension.
No, that's not what we're saying.
1) Devs will not work on the PS3. They're just not going to do it. THe PS3, the Boxee Box, the Popcorn Hour, AppleTV2. The devs aren't going to waste their time on them.
I think that'd clean up a large number of threads.
Davilla is working on this port right now is he not?
But thats not important and I agree with what you are saying. Whoever wants it should not beg those in this forum for it. If we want it, we need to figure out how we will actually get it done ourselves.
- milk - 2011-01-15
darkscout Wrote:You completely fail at reading comprehension.
No, that's not what we're saying.
1) Devs will not work on the PS3. They're just not going to do it. THe PS3, the Boxee Box, the Popcorn Hour, AppleTV2. The devs aren't going to waste their time on them.
2) However, YOU are more than free to do what ever you want with the code. Davilla keeps hinting at XBMC ATV2, but that's his personal side project. IF it works, I'm sure the devs would more than glad to accept the patches.
3) These threads are getting old. Everyone points out "but it's so easy. Cat is out of the bag, nothing to block it now!" but refuse to actually do anything other than beg the Dev. I think one even stated they don't even have the hardware to test on.
There honestly needs to be a never ending dialog box anytime a new member signs up.
"There will be no discussion of XBMC on the Boxeee Box, Popcorn Hour or PS3. Also, don't buy an ATI video card." [Ok] [Cancel]
"No really. If you post a thread about the PS3 we will find you. And Really Nvidia is that much better" [Ok] [Cancel]
"Last warning before you can actually post. NO THREADS ABOUT PS3. Intel GPUs suck too. Stick with Nvidia". [Ok] [Cancel]
I think that'd clean up a large number of threads.
People have asked if XBMC will be on the PS3 and others have replied No. That is the reason why I posted my comments. It's already on the XBMC. It's just a matter of time before full hardware support is reached.
Opensource development for the PS3 drivers stopped because "Other OS" was removed. Why work on the driver if breaking the xyz hack is a Sony patch away? That issue is no longer the case since the root keys are now public.
Sony realized that if linux was able to take advantage of graphics acceleration, people could run open source games, console emulators, and XBMC.... linux could take a bite into their game sales.
There is a pre-ps3-key-release and a post-ps3-key-release mindset on this forum. I don't know why, but some are still living in the pre-ps3-key-release mindset. Open source development will now continue on the ps3 hardware. It is a matter of time until full hardware support is reached.
The PS3 platform will be THE xbmc box to have. Linux will soon have full hardware support, and then poof! XBMC baby!
- natethomas - 2011-01-15
darkscout Wrote:"There will be no discussion of XBMC on the Boxeee Box, Popcorn Hour or PS3. Also, don't buy an ATI video card." [Ok] [Cancel]
To be fair, ATI video cards mostly work in Windows. It'd be better to say, "don't buy an ATI/AMD video card if you have any interest in XBMC Live or Linux."
- poofyhairguy - 2011-01-15
milk Wrote:Opensource development for the PS3 drivers stopped because "Other OS" was removed.
PS3 Open source = Linux PowerPC Port+Nouveau Graphics Driver+PS3 specific drivers
The last one of those was done years ago, and the other two kept on being developed without the PS3's Other OS. You are making the PS3 out to be a much more important piece of hardware than it actually is. Its a freaking game console.
The only thing that DID slow down thanks to the ending of the Other OS was a SPU based X driver, but that is now unneeded if the RSX is unlocked.
A SPU enabled Mplayer is already out there. Mplayer uses the same roots as XBMC. A motivated person could pull that SPU power into XBMC. The problem is the RSX's driver.
Quote:Sony realized that if linux was able to take advantage of graphics acceleration, people could run open source games, console emulators, and XBMC.... linux could take a bite into their game sales.
Sony was able to close holes in the Hypervisor as soon as they opened with firmware updates. The reason for the ending for Other OS is the same reason PS2 game support ended- newer and less costly units no longer had those features so Sony decided to take them from everyone it could.
The hacking of the hypervisor was just another reason it wasn't worth it to them.
Quote:There is a pre-ps3-key-release and a post-ps3-key-release mindset on this forum. I don't know why, but some are still living in the pre-ps3-key-release mindset. Open source development will now continue on the ps3 hardware. It is a matter of time until full hardware support is reached.
But see, that is where you are wrong. Its not that there is some pre-key/post-key mentality. It is that, quite honestly, in 2011 a PS3 isn't that great of HTPC hardware. Back in 2006, it was amazing. In 2011? Not so much.
The only people its a best option for are those who are too cheap to shell out for a HTPC. Compared to any ION system a PS3 makes a worse XBMC system and will no matter how much it gets developed.
Quote:The PS3 platform will be THE xbmc box to have.
This is where you are 100% wrong. The PS3 on its best day is a worse media center than any ION system. Why?
1. A PS3's Cell CPU for general purpose tasks (like the power needed for skins like Aeon) is about as slow as a Pentium 3 800 MHZ CPU. Yeah, really.
2. A PS3 has only 256mb of RAM, meaning that all decent skins will CRAWL on there. I know this because my AppleTV has the same restriction and its hardware is "fully utilized." An ION system with 2GB of RAM is magnitudes better.
3. A PS3 has a rotational HD, in the age of SSDs. An ION system with a SSD will have MAGNITUDES better performance in that area.
So in no way, ever, will the PS3 be THE system for XBMC except for those who are too cheap or ignorant to know how well XBMC performs on systems made for it...
- ashlar - 2011-01-15
milk Wrote:Sony realized that if linux was able to take advantage of graphics acceleration, people could run open source games, console emulators, and XBMC.... linux could take a bite into their game sales.please don't spread misinformed crap. Sony is worried about piracy. Full stop. The masses do not care for open source games, emulators and so on and so forth. They want to play the latest CoD, Uncharted, Gran Turismo, God of War and so on and so forth.
Your claims are unsubstantiated and reveal a deep lack of understanding of the videogames industry. Stop embarassing yourself, talk about stuff you know.
Is the PS3 a potentially good platform for XBMC? Sure. The best? No way. PS3 hardware is not cutting edge in any form or shape. I asked in the past about a PS3 port. I read the replies. I understand that the devs don't want to go back to grey areas. It's their right and I respect that.
- darkscout - 2011-01-15
cassius Wrote:Davilla is working on this port right now is he not?
But thats not important and I agree with what you are saying. Whoever wants it should not beg those in this forum for it. If we want it, we need to figure out how we will actually get it done ourselves.
Did you read point 2? The line directly below the one you quoted?
It's in his "free time". It's not in the main branch, it's on an entirely different site (google code).
Quote:post-ps3-key-release
There is no 'pre' or 'post' mentality. The mentality is DEVS DO NOT WANT TO WORK ON A PS3 PORT. If sony said "oh cat is out of the bag" and turned over the source code to the PS3 tomorrow. I don't think the devs would take a second look. If you want something, do it yourself. (Or hire someone to do it for you like Sigma).
- poofyhairguy - 2011-01-15
One thing I will say, the drama involving the cracking of the PS3 is priceless. Sony is trying to put horses back into barns using legal maneuvers, and may end up getting a precedent set against Eulas in the process. Sony is the only reason us Americans have any notion of fair use (outside the stupid exceptions of the DMCA), and they might accidentally destroy the framework that has protected closed source software and hardware for ages.
In fact, Sony hasn't handled anything so badly in a while. They are obviously terrified of pirates, because in their mind pirates equals "needing a PS4 sooner than we wanted" even though full scale piracy has been going on with the Wii and 360 communities for a while (especially the Wii, Wiiflow is amazing) and both those consoles are still going strong. Sony is just super control freaks, from their media departments to their hardware department.
The drama is more interesting than the hardware....