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+--- Thread: Ubuntu Mobile (formerly called "Ubuntu Embedded") as reference distribution? (/showthread.php?tid=27428)
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Ubuntu Mobile (formerly called "Ubuntu Embedded") as reference distribution? - Gamester17 - 2007-07-19
I like to suggest that the Team-XBMC developers involved in the XBMC Linux port look into using EmbeddedUbuntu (Ubuntu Embedded) as the XBMC's main official reference Linux distribution (to use in the future for LiveDistro/LiveCD distros). Maybe not make the official move now today but how about this fall/authum when it is officially released (which it should be at the same time as Ubuntu 7.10)?, though note that experimental ALPHA version already exist which you can build today for testing.
Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded Edition announcement:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000289.html
EmbeddedUbuntu WIKI:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmbeddedUbuntu
What does "Embedded" mean in regards to an operating-system and hardware?
Embedded system is not originally designed to run on normal computers but instead special-purpose stand-alone computers and devices like, Set-on-top boxes, PDAs, Internet Tablets, digital video recoders, and car-PCs, embedded Linux is also now common on network devices such as routers and NAS (Network Attatched Storage). Embedded operating-system are usually a slimmed down version of a full operating-system, nornally all the 'bloat stuff' not used by the main application running on the device have been stripped down or removed to save space and increase performance. Linux embedded is usually designed for "instant-on" performance, (normally with the help of some kind of hibernation/suspend techniques like loading the whole operating-system from UEFI). Since embedded operating-systems are stripped down they usually also contians less bugs and are considered more reliable than a full operating-system which has much more code and dependencies.
What is EmbeddedUbuntu (Ubuntu Embedded) and why should XBMC use it?
Ubuntu recently announced "Ubuntu Embedded Edition" (primarly aimed at Intel's new mobile internet devices, a.k.a. MID, and UMPC, ie. Ultra Mobile PC devices, hardware which is mostly based on ARM-architecture processors but EmbeddedUbuntu will also work on any x86 (386) based processor as well). The first release of this edition is planned to take place in October once with the release of the Ubuntu 7.10 version (codename Gutsy Gibbon). The fact is that the Xbox also is an embedded device (just like all other video-game consoles) and XBMC has always been designed to run a an embedded application, this is what could make this a marriage made in heaven.
What do you guys think? ...soon it may be time to start our own LiveDistro/LiveCD distro anyway(?)
PS! Gentoo has since a few years back had a similar project with similar goals to create an embedded version of Gentoo. A few other alternatives are the EmDebian project (official website emdebian.org), and ThinLinx.
OpenEmbedded is also something we might want to loon into. OpenEmbedded is a full-featured development environment allowing users to target a wide variety of devices, making the building of Live CD's and such simpler.
- ralob - 2007-07-19
it sounds brilliant to me. as a Ubuntu user I would be more than excited if this was utilized. the community would also be very receptive, as well.
- Iceman-UK - 2007-07-19
I am very, very excited by the Linux port of the XBMC software. There are so much potential in it. I've been a Linux users since Red Hat 4.2 and I've been running Ubuntu Linux since 2005. I currently run Ubuntu Linux Feisty (7.04) on my workstation and laptop. I can't wait till there is something like "Mythbuntu" (mythbuntu.org) for this project.
Sorry to go off-topic but right now, I'd like to grab the latest Alpha binary and give it a test-drive. As something of a beginner to the world of the Linux port, perhaps a "sticky" entitled "Alpha testers - how to try it out" would be beneficial. That way you can get bug-reports ASAP. I understand if this is going to wait until the thing is Beta quality though, as you don't want people reporting lack of features as bugs.
- jmarshall - 2007-07-19
Just follow the guide on the wiki:
http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Linux_port_project#Where_do_I_start_.28Linux.29.3F
It's intended for developers, but if you are willing to test stuff out and see what needs doing and what doesn't (and adding this info to the bugtrackers and or to the TODO lists on the wiki) then feel free - it's pretty straight forward. Just checkout the SVN, and follow the README.linux.
Cheers,
Jonathan
- yuvalt - 2007-07-20
This is great!! Once it's out we'll start playing with it, hopefully we can have our own "Live CD" on USB memory with this Ubuntu+XBMC.
- Gamester17 - 2007-07-20
yuvalt Wrote:Once it's out we'll start playing with itFYI; you do not have to wait until October to play with it, just like Gutsy Gibbon (7.10) you can download the BETA today
- dailydisco - 2007-07-20
yuvalt Wrote:This is great!! Once it's out we'll start playing with it, hopefully we can have our own "Live CD" on USB memory with this Ubuntu+XBMC.
Hopefully the embedded version will boot faster from USB than a persistent version, although I imagine it would since the hardware probe would be nearly or completely nonexistant. I put together a 2GB USB drive running a semi-hacked version of 7.04. It has to be hacked a bit since there are problems with 7.04 running in persistent mode... I used this tutorial:
http://xubuntublog.wordpress.com/2007/06/17/ubuntu-feisty-on-your-usb-drive-finally/
It boots faster than the liveCD, but it would be a bit disappointing if you compared it to the fast loading of the Xbox. Still, this tutorial is fun to do if you want to have Ubuntu running w/ Linux on a machine that normally runs Windows...especially as an alternative to the VM since this would allow for 3D which the VM does not. I bought a 2Gb USB for $15 from Microcenter for this.
- iFritz - 2007-07-21
Sorry, just sticking right now.
I'm so excited about that
Just for my understanding:
The XBMC Linux port, shall be a standalone prog or a kind of a linux Distri/Derivate?
- mace - 2007-07-22
The long term idea is to make it as a dist. A lot esier to support and get stable that way
- webbanane - 2007-07-24
Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but I think one of the most important WAF (women acceptance factor
) is the boot-time (and my own acceptance factor in living room).And here a guy is talking of a 3 seconds boot time for linux single user mode with a special linux BIOS (linux kernel within BIOS):
http://www.epiacenter.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=138&mode=&order=&thold=
Does anybody know? Can we reach "our" old XBMC boot time of 10 seconds with ubuntu (embedded)? I believe this question is very important? What is about Apple TV?
- yuvalt - 2007-07-24
webbanane Wrote:Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but I think one of the most important WAF (women acceptance factor
And here a guy is talking of a 3 seconds boot time for linux single user mode with a special linux BIOS (linux kernel within BIOS):
http://www.epiacenter.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=138&mode=&order=&thold=
Does anybody know? Can we reach "our" old XBMC boot time of 10 seconds with ubuntu (embedded)? I believe this question is very important? What is about Apple TV?
What about standby (S3)? Should resume in 3 seconds or less..
- yuvalt - 2007-07-24
Gamester17 Wrote:I like to suggest that the Team-XBMC developers involved in the XBMC Linux port look into using EmbeddedUbuntu (Ubuntu Embedded) as the XBMC's main official reference Linux distribution (to use in the future for LiveDistro/LiveCD distros). Maybe not make the official move now today but how about this fall/authum when it is officially released (which it should be at the same time as Ubuntu 7.10)?, though note that experimental ALPHA version already exist which you can build today for testing.Looking at those URLs it seems that EmbeddedUbuntu is for ARM based machines and not for Intel based machines. Did I miss something?
Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded Edition announcement:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000289.html
EmbeddedUbuntu WIKI:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmbeddedUbuntu
What does "Embedded" mean in regards to an operating-system and hardware?
Embedded system is not originally designed to run on normal computers but instead special-purpose stand-alone computers and devices like, Set-on-top boxes, PDAs, Internet Tablets, digital video recoders, and car-PCs, embedded Linux is also now common on network devices such as routers and NAS (Network Attatched Storage). Embedded operating-system are usually a slimmed down version of a full operating-system, nornally all the 'bloat stuff' not used by the main application running on the device have been stripped down or removed to save space and increase performance. Linux embedded is usually designed for "instant-on" performance, (normally with the help of some kind of hibernation/suspend techniques like loading the whole operating-system from UEFI). Since embedded operating-systems are stripped down they usually also contians less bugs and are considered more reliable than a full operating-system which has much more code and dependencies.
What is EmbeddedUbuntu (Ubuntu Embedded) and why should XBMC use it?
Ubuntu recently announced "Ubuntu Embedded Edition" (primarly aimed at Intel's new mobile internet devices, a.k.a. MID, and UMPC, ie. Ultra Mobile PC devices, hardware which is mostly based on ARM-architecture processors but EmbeddedUbuntu will also work on any x86 (386) based processor as well). The first release of this edition is planned to take place in October once with the release of the Ubuntu 7.10 version (codename Gutsy Gibbon). The fact is that the Xbox also is an embedded device (just like all other video-game consoles) and XBMC has always been designed to run a an embedded application, this is what could make this a marriage made in heaven.
What do you guys think? ...soon it may be time to start our own LiveDistro/LiveCD distro anyway(?)
PS! Gentoo has since a few years back had a similar project with similar goals to create an embedded version of Gentoo. A few other alternatives are the EmDebian project (official website emdebian.org), and ThinLinx.
OpenEmbedded is also something we might want to loon into. OpenEmbedded is a full-featured development environment allowing users to target a wide variety of devices, making the building of Live CD's and such simpler.
- Gamester17 - 2007-07-24
Gamester17 Wrote:Ubuntu recently announced "Ubuntu Embedded Edition" (primarly aimed at Intel's new mobile internet devices, a.k.a. MID, and UMPC, ie. Ultra Mobile PC devices, hardware which is mostly based on ARM-architecture processors but EmbeddedUbuntu will also work on any x86 (386) based processor as well).Like I wrote, it is primarly aimed for ARM hardware, but it builds for i386 hardware as well.
- webbanane - 2007-07-25
yuvalt Wrote:What about standby (S3)? Should resume in 3 seconds or less..
Is not the same, only a compromise:
* Not really off.
* If XBMC needs reboot this is no good solution (and mine needs reboot very often, e.g. when network connections tilt, coruppted media file, cancel button pressed, python scripts make trouble and so on).
XBMC boot time on xbox used to be and still is really, really cool!
Has anybody tried to deactivate hwprobe and all unneeded HW and measured boot time?
- Gamester17 - 2007-07-25
Going into details about how-to speed-up Linux boot-time is OFF-TOPIC to a new seperate topic-thread should be created to it.
Quote:Major To-Do tasks with low priorityPS! Remember that fast load and boot times only needs to be for end-user perception (other things can still run/start in the background without the user knowledge, ...like for Windows, only becuase you can move the mouse and browse the start-menu does not mean that Windows has finished booting).
* [MAJOR - LOW PRIORITY] Hibernation - Suspend to Disk (STD) (code should be completly different from STR)
** Hibernation (Suspend to Disk), only if could somehow be used to speed up the initial boot-time.
* [MAJOR - LOW PRIORITY] Suspend and Resume support - Suspend to RAM (STR) (not to share code with STD)