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Celeron - sorry guys I think it's a bust :-( - BLKMGK - 2008-12-17
Okay, the USB issue is my fault. My drive has a Y connector on it with one end being power only. Guess which one dummy was inserting? <sigh>
Now the bad news on the Celeron.
At 3ghz it will play 720P video with zero issues. 1080 video however drops frames. Killa drops over 200 frames and at one point it pauses badly and the video drops. Too demanding? The Apple trailer for Iron Man also drops frames at 1080 although not nearly as much. During Killa' one core goes to over 90%, the second is around 40% at that point so perhaps some room for improvement. Playing some of my own rips as I mentioned above is also an issue.I attempted to bump the CPU speed even higher. I know from my experience with the C2D that this is simply a matter of brute force. Unfortunately attempts to boot the Celeron at 3.14ghz FAIL, as Linux begins to load the machine spontaneously reboots. I could maybe find a medium between 3 and 3.14 where it would be happy but it would be close to the edge and not something I'd be comfortable advising others to try. Better cooling might help but defeat the budget purpose of this CPU. I will admit I'm tempted to try better grease and to maybe lap the heatsink's very rough surface but that's not something I'd expect many to want to do and again it would be on the edge. I do not want to fool with CPU voltages, it would almost certainly get me 3.1ghz but at the expense of additional heat plus again this isn't something a novice would be looking to do. I wish I had some of the utilities I do in Windows to try and figure out what's going on but right now it just looks like we're asking too much of this particular CPU.
Next I will try the 2.66ghz C2D I also purchased, possibly tonight. I will bump it's speed to 3ghz and retest. If it performs as poorly as this Celeron then this is a software issue and not a CPU issue but I will be VERY surprised if this is the case. I do still have things like desktop effects turned on in the background which might be effecting things but I have found that if I leave that turned on VNC allows me to navigate in XBMC which is nice.
Anyway, swapping from the $60 CPU to the $120 next, will try Boxee real quick though before I do.
2.66 C2d @ 3ghz does it - BLKMGK - 2008-12-17
Okay, I was a little worried that this would turn out to be a software issue and the Celeron would still be in question but I can now put that to rest. As it happens the 2.66ghz 45nm C2D I had used the exact same multiplier as the Celeron. Swapping it in required nothing more than dropping it in, updating the BIOS, and firing it up. This brought the CPU up at the EXACT same speed as the Celeron.
Results? Killa' plays smooth as glass! Iron Man trailer likewise plays smooth! No audio dropouts, no stutter, no nothing but perfect video!!!!
Yes it sux that the CPU to do this is $120 vs the $60 Celeron but if you wanted the Celeron would do 720P all day long I think - I tried it on some downloaded TV shows...Some other things I noted.. The grease under the Celeron heatsink wasn't spread well. IMO Intel is doing a crappy job with the grease and the Celeron heatsink is junk. <shrug> I also noted that the Celeron fan has a 2 or 3wire connector vs the 4-5wire one on the C2D - that means the Celeron cannot be controlled like the C2D can - another cost cutting move it seems...
So, here's my build -> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=9999386 If someone decides to duplicate it let me know and I can explain exactly what I had to do software wise although honestly it's detailed in this thread pretty well. Right now sound not working in desktop apps and I just tried an MP3 file - not working there either so a little more tweaking left to do!
- falc410 - 2008-12-17
BLMGK can you do me a favor ? Can you try playing the killa sample with the 2.66 Ghz C2D at its default speed? I just want to know how it performs compared to a 3 Ghz model.
Is it a E7300 ?
- olympia - 2008-12-17
falc410 Wrote:BLMGK can you do me a favor ? Can you try playing the killa sample with the 2.66 Ghz C2D at its default speed? I just want to know how it performs compared to a 3 Ghz model.
Is it a E7300 ?
Yes, this is definitely a good question, as I have an E8200 clocking at stock speed (2.66) and don't have any dropped frames playing killa sample, apart from 2-3 at the very begining.
- BLKMGK - 2008-12-17
falc410 Wrote:BLMGK can you do me a favor ? Can you try playing the killa sample with the 2.66 Ghz C2D at its default speed? I just want to know how it performs compared to a 3 Ghz model.
Is it a E7300 ?
I will be most happy to do so! If you look at the NewEgg "wishlist" of my build it will give you the exact model and pricing of all of the hardware in this build - cost just under $400 total and indeed that was a 7300.
Olympia, if this plays without dropping it will be because they have further improved XBMC!
That would be very good news indeed and something I should have checked but it was late and I needed a little sleep! When I first began trying to play Killa' even 3ghz couldn't do without a few dropped frames and in short order it improved well enough to do it so there's certainly precedent for this!I will retest when I return from my trip Thursday or Friday. Meanwhile I'm all ears as to why the heck MP3 don't play properly but movies and interface sounds DO!
- falc410 - 2008-12-17
olympia Wrote:Yes, this is definitely a good question, as I have an E8200 clocking at stock speed (2.66) and don't have any dropped frames playing killa sample, apart from 2-3 at the very begining.
Well there shouldn't be too much of a difference between a E7300 and E8200 CPU since both clock at the same speed, but the E8x00 series has double the cache - which in reality usually makes little to no difference, but then again most benchmarks use games so I don't know the impact on XBMC.
That's why I am wondering how it will perform compared to the 8000 series. But if you say that your E8200 works fine then so should the E7300. I'm looking forward to BLKMGK's return.
- Chaos_666 - 2008-12-17
Hi there
@BLKMGK
Updated my last post concerning the mp3 problem.
So right now i have no solution for this. But i will keep trying when i am back home.
Thx chaos
- BLKMGK - 2008-12-17
Debating this in another thread as well actually. I agree that cache doesn't often make a difference however note that the biggest difference between a Celeron at 3ghz and the 7300 at 3ghz is indeed the cache! I also found that the Celeron compiled XBMC noticably slower than my other machine. I didn't time it but my other machine started compiling minutes after the Celeron and completed minutes BEFORE the Celeron. I chalked it up to HDD access and a different version of Ubuntu but.... I guess this test will tell us if cache is truly critical or not!
I look forward to testing this as well, could prove very interesting! How do the AMD CPU compare in cache - at least as well yes? And an onboard memory controller to boot! I do not understand why they fare so poorly compared to the Intel CPUs. I wonder if compilation or code could be better optimized for the AMD CPUs...
- Chaos_666 - 2008-12-17
Hi there
@BLKMGK or any other with the P5N7A-VM
could you try the following .asoundrc
Code:
pcm.dmixer {
type dmix
ipc_key 1024
ipc_key_add_uid false
ipc_perm 0660
slave {
pcm "hw:0,3"
rate 48000
channels 2
format S32_LE
period_time 0
period_size 1024
buffer_time 0
buffer_size 4096
}
}
pcm.!default {
type plug
slave.pcm "dmixer"
}Audio Settings:
digital
off
off
default
default
This one seems to work for me. But i only have my Panasonic Plasma TV connected.
So i do not know what happens if you put dts or dd or similar to your playlist.
Do not blame me for blowing your receivers, as the only thing i am doing is trial&error and reading some posts.
So maybe somebody could explain what is in the .asoundrc i posted above.
Any response welcome, as i could only do a short test.
THX
Chaos
- spozen - 2008-12-17
Too bad i had my hopes up for a cheaper HTPC, but using a processor like E8400 isn't so bad either you could use your HTPC for games and/or folding.
@BLKMGK
What utilities are you missing in ubuntu?
- Asswipe44 - 2008-12-18
BLKMGK Wrote:So, here's my build -> http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=9999386 If someone decides to duplicate it let me know and I can explain exactly what I had to do software wise although honestly it's detailed in this thread pretty well. Right now sound not working in desktop apps and I just tried an MP3 file - not working there either so a little more tweaking left to do!
Thanks for the set of components, BLKMGK. Do you guys think I would be able to put this under my TV without it overheating? The following is the thread with a picture for reference. My main concerns right now have to do with the heat and noise from the HTPC. I'm probably gonna stick with the E8400, but if it makes more noise/heat than the specified 2.66ghz model, I will get the latter.
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=42092
- BLKMGK - 2008-12-18
spozen Wrote:Too bad i had my hopes up for a cheaper HTPC, but using a processor like E8400 isn't so bad either you could use your HTPC for games and/or folding.
@BLKMGK
What utilities are you missing in ubuntu?
I agree it would have been nice to go cheap but still this is decent I think. As for utilities - I'd like something that the PCWizard program which gives me a great deal of data including SMART and temp information. It would be nice if I could control fans and set alarms. I know that some if not all is doable in Linux but geez it can be a hassle. I have installed the LM sensors package but not yet configured it, setting that puppy up looks daunting but it would be nice if it could give XBMC temp information. I would like it to be as easy as setting up Lirc was - pretty much PnP for me
If I had a wish it would be for utilities to allow me to modify FSB and memory speeds from the O/S. I have had this ability off and on in Windows and it makes overclocking much easier. Hey, dynamic clocking would also be nice for power savings, I have all the switches for this enabled in the BIOS but on the Celeron it didn't appear to be working judging from some messages I got from CPU load utilities I installed. <shrug> Speedstep is what Intel calls this I think...As for installing this under your TV, maybe. I will take measurements of the case ASAP for you. Honestly you may find a better case for the task, this board is SMALL and requires NO additional cards so bear that in mind. Frankly putting it BEHIND the furniture with just the IRDA receiver for the remote showing would also be a very good way to go and certainly better ventilated and isolated. This thing has a fairly annoying blue LED strip across the front too - easily eliminated but I will try to lower the brightness first...
- Asswipe44 - 2008-12-18
I appreciate it
- falc410 - 2008-12-18
spozen Wrote:Too bad i had my hopes up for a cheaper HTPC, but using a processor like E8400 isn't so bad either you could use your HTPC for games and/or folding.
If it turns out that 2.6 Ghz or even 2.5 Ghz which less then 6 MB Cache then you could go for an E7x00 which is a bit cheaper then the E8x00 series, or even an E5200 / E5300 which costs about a 1/3 of the E8400.
Still waiting BLKMGK's test with his E7300 @ 2.66 Ghz and the killa sample.
- spozen - 2008-12-18
BLKMGK Wrote:I agree it would have been nice to go cheap but still this is decent I think. As for utilities - I'd like something that the PCWizard program which gives me a great deal of data including SMART and temp information. It would be nice if I could control fans and set alarms. I know that some if not all is doable in Linux but geez it can be a hassle. I have installed the LM sensors package but not yet configured it, setting that puppy up looks daunting but it would be nice if it could give XBMC temp information. I would like it to be as easy as setting up Lirc was - pretty much PnP for me
LM-Sensors: Temps, fan speeds (do you really mean controlling the speed of the fan? i didn't know that even existed on windows)
Modifying FSB and memory speeds:
That's a hardware issue because this a tool from asus rite?
Dynamic clocking: Intel speedstep should be available out of the box otherwise try cpufreq.
SMART GUI:
gsmartcontrol
falc410 Wrote:If it turns out that 2.6 Ghz or even 2.5 Ghz which less then 6 MB Cache then you could go for an E7x00 which is a bit cheaper then the E8x00 series, or even an E5200 / E5300 which costs about a 1/3 of the E8400.
Still waiting BLKMGK's test with his E7300 @ 2.66 Ghz and the killa sample.
The CPUS you mentioned are like 10 - 40 dollars cheaper than the E8400, in the end the E8400 is the best choice.