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Upscaling...Revisted - Printable Version

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Upscaling...Revisted - DragonFly - 2023-08-10

There are many questions about the subject, with often confusing or contradicting answers. So, I'd like to do a recap:
 
  • First question, is there any way to tell from within Kodi, through various debug windows/logs, which device is doing what kind of upscaling?

I have a Nvidia Shield 2015 (still working great), attached to a modern high-end 4k TV. Nowadays, the TV hardware upscaling processors/AI are pretty good and there's basically no need for Kodi (or the Shield) to do any upscaling at all and subsequently let the TV handle that.
 
  • So what I'm basically asking is, what settings are needed to prevent Kodi (or the Shield) from upscaling 480p - 1080p content?

    The Shield is set at 4k 59.940 Hz YUV 420 10-bit Rec. 2020. Framerate switching is working.
    Do I need to:
     - At Settings -> System - Set Resolution at 3840x2160 or 1920x1080 (current at 1080)
     - At Settings -> System - Set GUI resolution limit at Auto, Unlimited, 720 or 1080 (current at 1080)
     - At Settings -> System - Set any whitelist (current none)
     - At Settings -> Player Processing - Lower or increase HQ scalers (current at 20%)
     - Change anything else?

    Does changing any of these setting make a significant difference? Just not sure which setting does the thing I'd like accomplish.

Thanks for your input

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - Hitcher - 2023-08-10

Pressing 'z' (or mapping AspectRatio to a remote button) will show you if any scaling is being done by Kodi.

Any resolutions/refresh rate you want done by the TV will need to be added to the Whitelist.

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - DragonFly - 2023-08-10

Thanks. The 'z' button does show information.....briefly, that is. Bit too short to evaluate all the info.

If I'm seeing something like:
  • Sizing: (1280,720) -> (1920,1080) means Kodi is upscaling?
  • Sizing: (1280,720) -> (1280,720) means the TV is doing its work

No whitelisting. Video's are upscaled by Kodi and 720p 23.98 video's are correctly switched to their same frame-rate.
White Listed common resolutions/framerates. Video's are NOT upscaled (according to 'z' info) but some 720p 23.98 video's stay at 59.9Hz.
Actually, this White listing seem more Black listing as selected resolutions are not handled by Kodi

As an esteemed member, its probably peanuts for you, but it leaves me with some questions/remarks:
  • Actually, this White listing seems more like Black listing as selected resolutions are not handled/allowed by Kodi.
  • Do the Kodi GUI resolution settings and GUI resolution limit have any influence/effect? Can I leave them at 4k/auto or set them at a lower value?
  • Any other settings that have an effect on upscaling or are they ignorden while White Listing?
  • One tiny thing, the ALT+O (PlayerDebugVideo) does not work on Android?


RE: Upscaling...Revisted - Sholander - 2023-08-10

The logic is simple, every resolution in Whitelist is not touched by Kodi; it's simply passed through to display which handles any upscaling needed. (Similar to audio that can be passed through to any audio device which then handles it)
Btw, depending on a device, but usually, GUI layer resolution has no effect on video stream in Android, since different layer renderers are used; one for GUI layer and other for video layer...

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - DragonFly - 2023-08-10

(2023-08-10, 20:06)Sholander Wrote: The logic is simple, every resolution in Whitelist is not touched by Kodi; it's simply passed through to display which handles any upscaling needed. (Similar to audio that can be passed through to any audio device which then handles it)
Btw, depending on a device, but usually, GUI layer resolution has no effect on video stream in Android, since different layer renderers are used; one for GUI layer and other for video layer...

Thanks for explaining. Edited my post as I'm getting the point. Just the phrase 'White List' seems a bit contradicting. In this case it refers to the TV and not Kodi, that was the assumption I made. The short explanation in the GUI could explain that.

Still some loose ends, though:
  • Is having the GUI resolution at 4k recommendable or set it at 1080?
  • What the point of the GUI resolution limit (not seen on a Windows machine)
  • Framerate switching not correct on 720p video's when whitelisted
  • PlayerDebugVideo not showing on Android?



RE: Upscaling...Revisted - Sholander - 2023-08-10

(2023-08-10, 20:29)DragonFly Wrote:
(2023-08-10, 20:06)Sholander Wrote:  
  • Framerate switching not correct on 720p video's when whitelisted
  • PlayerDebugVideo not showing on Android?


So, don't Whitelist 720p Wink or try with enabled "Double refresh rate"

What is "PlayerDebugVideo"? For more info read "https://kodi.wiki/view/Player_process_info"

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - DragonFly - 2023-08-10

Is that a question?

"PlayerDebugVideo" is the Action defined for Alt+O in keyboard.xml, which in the Wiki is called "Video Debug Info".
'O' and 'CTRL+SHIFT+O'  generate an info overlay. ALT+O should also generate info. It does not on Android. Just asking if that's correct and maybe why...useful information there.

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - Sholander - 2023-08-10

If you read, as suggested, you'd surely noticed that Alt+O works ONLY on Widows, as stated clearly in Red on that page...

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - DragonFly - 2023-08-10

Must have read that page a few times and missed it altogether...

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - -locha- - 2023-12-14

Can someone please answer this?
Furthermore, I read: "If you want the TV to do all the work (upscaling) you should whitelist 720p, 1080p and 2160p modes" on the other hand I read "Whitelist must be deactivated, then the TV does the upscaling".
What is true now?
Statement 1 or 2

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - ashlar - 2023-12-14

(2023-12-14, 14:31)-locha- Wrote: Can someone please answer this?
Furthermore, I read: "If you want the TV to do all the work (upscaling) you should whitelist 720p, 1080p and 2160p modes" on the other hand I read "Whitelist must be deactivated, then the TV does the upscaling".
What is true now?
Statement 1 or 2
Resolutions/refresh rates you whitelist are passed untouched to the TV. Which, if resolution is lower than native resolution, will handle the upscaling.

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - -locha- - 2023-12-14

and if I don't add anything to the whitelist? what happens then?

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - Hitcher - 2023-12-14

(2023-12-14, 17:38)-locha- Wrote: and if I don't add anything to the whitelist? what happens then?
Kodi will scale them to the display resolution.

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - -locha- - 2023-12-14

(2023-12-14, 21:56)Hitcher Wrote:
(2023-12-14, 17:38)-locha- Wrote: and if I don't add anything to the whitelist? what happens then?
Kodi will scale them to the display resolution.
By display resolution do you mean the resolution of the TV, i.e. 2160p for a 4kTV?
But that is not the case. In my case, the complete whitelist is deactivated and a 1080p video goes 1:1 to the TV, here I have 1080p under TV Info and not 2160p!
so it's rather the other way round. Whitelist deactivated --> signal goes 1:1 to TV and this takes over the upscaling

RE: Upscaling...Revisted - Sholander - 2023-12-14

Hehe, you don't really understand what your TV does to 1080p signal it receives; of course TV upscales it to 2160 Smile Otherwise you'd see video shown only on one quarter of your display like on this picture. 
With Whitelist deactivated, Kodi upscales 1080p resolution to 21650p, and then sends it as such to TV. If you have a decent TV, especially some top Sony model you'd surely prefer your tv do the upscaling, since no android box can do a better job than todays top notch TVs.