+- Kodi Community Forum (https://forum.kodi.tv)
+-- Forum: Support (https://forum.kodi.tv/forumdisplay.php?fid=33)
+--- Forum: General Support (https://forum.kodi.tv/forumdisplay.php?fid=111)
+---- Forum: Mac OS X (https://forum.kodi.tv/forumdisplay.php?fid=56)
+---- Thread: Returning sheepishly from PLEX... (/showthread.php?tid=46924)
Returning sheepishly from PLEX... - Rudepooch - 2009-03-14
Hey all. I was a long time XBMC user, and bought a mac about six months ago which motivated me to move over to XBMC under the PLEX moniker. Pretty sleek and used the apple hardware well.
Unfortunately a recent 'clean up' over at PLEX removed <b>a lot</b> of functionality, and it isn't turning my crank anymore. So, I'm back... no hard feelings?
I am curious though, before I actually replace the software, how is XBMC stacking up these days in comparison to PLEX, specifically on the mac mini? Anyone running them both that would be willing to give me a comparison? All my 'intel' is a year old.
Thanks. Please don't hate. Help.
- davilla - 2009-03-14
Welcome back
XBMC for Mac is doing great. Good stability and lot's of bugs stomped. Feature wise, pretty much equal parity with Linux except for vpdau (hardware acceleration). We don't have anything like "App Store" yet.
What specifically was removed that you are looking to gain back.
- Rudepooch - 2009-03-14
I don't use the database features of xbmc- I've never liked that way of doing things, and I hate itunes for that reason as well.
They removed some of the settings that make it possible organize you media with a folder-structure/file-name hierarchy rather than using the database- the movies and television links on the main menu go to your database and you can't hide them.
It doesn't seem like a big deal, but I have a few systems set up for my family and some of them are older and far from technosavy. I'm constantly getting phone calls wondering why 'it's not working' when the problem is they are looking for their movies in the movies section (Accoring to the responses at the plex forum this situation is 'less confusing' than having a setting to hide the movies and tv menu items and only use the videos item). Not easy to explain that the movies section doesn't go to their movies (especially to someone who lived a good portion of their life without electricity).
They also removed the file manager, which isn't as big a deal for me. But I hate the idea of removing features 'just because'. They work, they are unproblematic, they are useful, and by removing them you make the program useful to fewer people. The only reason to remove them that I can see is that you think a shorter menu is 'prettier'. But you are making a choice for your users, and as a philosophy student that kinda bothers me. More freedom please, not less.
- jonm42 - 2009-03-14
davilla Wrote:... Good stability and lot's of bugs stomped. ...
For sure -- when I first got into this (way back at the beginning of February
), when I compiled in Xcode, it gave 30+ warnings. When I pulled and built on Wednesday, there were 6. This number has been steadily going down. Very nice work by the dev team -- hats off!
- topfs2 - 2009-03-14
Rudepooch Wrote:.. They also removed the file manager, which isn't as big a deal for me. But I hate the idea of removing features 'just because'. They work, they are unproblematic, they are useful, and by removing them you make the program useful to fewer people. The only reason to remove them that I can see is that you think a shorter menu is 'prettier'. But you are making a choice for your users, and as a philosophy student that kinda bothers me. More freedom please, not less.
Say what? they have removed the FileManager? That´s to be honest one of those features little extras I love about XBMC, and makes it feels alot more HTPC only like, I hate having a server on my HTPC just because I have to send new skins to it and such, to me it feels more natural to just do it from the couch
- davilla - 2009-03-14
jonm42 Wrote:For sure -- when I first got into this (way back at the beginning of February
Hehe, and I'm about to stomp those six because I like a clean build
- Rudepooch - 2009-03-14
Ya.
Its actually interesting seeing the differences in philosophy between the xbmc devs and the plex devs at work. The plex devs cut out a lot. They are trying to simplify it, which is not in itself a bad thing. The problem is drawing a line between simplifying and oversimplifying. I think when you start to loose functionality you have gone to far.
You can read the forum thread about it
http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php?showtopic=4400&st=0&gopid=28667&#entry28667
And the filemanager
http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php?showtopic=4049
- davilla - 2009-03-14
Another big difference is that anyone can see everything we are working on via svn. Nothing is hidden. Want to see what is happening, just watch http://trac.xbmc.org/timeline. It's all out in the open.
Users can also pull and build from any OSX related branch in svn. I've worked very hard to get the Xcode build in good shape such that most users have no problem pulling and building the complete XBMC.app. And we have 3rd party svn builds available too for users that cannot build XBMC.app themselves.
- ChoccyHobNob - 2009-03-15
You forget this thread :-)
http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php?showtopic=4337
and Plexapp ticket #260
https://plexapp.lighthouseapp.com/projects/15067/tickets/260-put-things-back-we-took-out
- Rudepooch - 2009-03-15
Actually I never saw that thread- thanks. Gonna read it now.
Why oh why? lol. Oh well.
I just hope XBMC doesn't choose to alienate it's users that prefer folder-structure/file-name organization. If that happens I'm screwed.
- rwparris2 - 2009-03-15
Rudepooch Wrote:Actually I never saw that thread- thanks. Gonna read it now.
Why oh why? lol. Oh well.
I just hope XBMC doesn't choose to alienate it's users that prefer folder-structure/file-name organization. If that happens I'm screwed.
I'm sure you've explained this before, but what about library mode doesn't work for you?
- pmcd - 2009-03-15
rwparris2 Wrote:I'm sure you've explained this before, but what about library mode doesn't work for you?
I prefer to categorize my videos and to use Videos to watch things. That way I know where things are and when they get added. Library mode is neat but it's more automated and leaves you with less control over your videos which may not fit into either TV or Movie categories. Also, I've had bad luck with adding items to the Library. I get repeats or things aren't there or funny info, etc... It requires a lot of attention to naming conventions. Basically I am just more comfortable categorizing my own videos.
philip
- criti - 2009-03-15
pmcd Wrote:I prefer to categorize my videos and to use Videos to watch things. That way I know where things are and when they get added.
philip
I'm not a huge fan of the library mode either. It either needs to step back a few steps or look way ahead.
As far as stepping back, why can't you just make the file system use the scraped info? If you are in the file system and hovering over a tv show directory that has been scraped, it shows you the info about it, if you are on a file name for an episode, it shows you the scraped info about that episode. Why have two separate systems?
Now the other direction would be to make the library the main focus. But as mentioned before, the library system in its current state is extremely lacking, which a main part is the lack of good scrapers. This is where Plex is better than XBMC imo. Plex has more scrapers and gets more thumbnails and fanart and can filter all of that so you don't get any weird chinese cover art for your videos and you can specify if you want wide or poster icons depending on your skin. If you want to use a database for the main viewing method, it's gotta be revamped. Boxee is on the right track, altho I'm not a huge fan of their gui. But the library would need to be updated constantly so there's no need to go into a file system for a video you added a few minutes ago.
I've owned a lot of DVRs over the years including tivo, replaytv, motorola, eyetv, etc and none have both a file mode and a database style mode. either make the file system more informative and pleasant or make the library mode more user friendly.
- jmarshall - 2009-03-15
Plex uses the XBMC scrapers, so you're wrong on that front. They have not altered them at all.
I'm planning on unifying files and library views in the future, so that you can view by either, with information from both. Obviously the library view is more optimal if your content fits it well, but if it doesn't, then viewing by folder layout will give you more control over the layout, whilst still having the metadata information available.
Making it easier to get your content into the librar is ofcourse critical as well.
Cheers,
Jonathan
- tyche - 2009-03-15
If you just turn on library mode and throw movies at it, I can see people having issues.
However, you can manually set up the library or just semi set it up. I use Media Companion to create the nfo and then I fix it up adding and changing what I want. Things like actors, genres (simplify or make your own), art.
Once you have a well formatted nfo, it makes the library mode very powerful. At least I think so. I have so many movies and it's handy to browse by genre (movies can be listed in multiple genre) or pick an actor and see what other movies you have with them in it. Or list the last ten movies I've added so I can quickly watch what I've recently added. I've used file mode before and still see library mode as an improved file mode.