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+--- Thread: Video library redesign idea - How can we improve Smart Playlists, aka Filtered Lists? (/showthread.php?tid=51605)
- Gamester17 - 2009-05-27
@jmarshall, did you manage to get "Video Database Library Movie Grouping (for custom sort order filter in library mode)" into this somehow as well?:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=14476
Basically to be able to group sequential movies with non-sequential names for such 'groups' or 'series' (usually epic sagas that are followed by each other) as; Alien, Dirty Harry, Fast and Furious, Indiana Jones, Grindhouse (Death Proof and Planet Terror), James Bond (007), Lord Of The Rings, Star Wars, Transporter, Rambo, Planet Of The Apes, Sällskapsresan, Jump London and Jump Britain.
gamerzhaven81 Wrote:Example...
I have the Die Hard series...
Die Hard
Die Harder
Die Hard: With A Vengeance
Live Free, Die Hard
The first three get put next to one another, and due to the naming even in the right order, the last one is nowhere near these due to starting with an L
- J_K_M_A_N - 2009-05-27
jmarshall Wrote:This is a problem, I agree, but it's non-trivial to display this sort of thing in the user interface, given that one has to allow nested ands within ors or ors within ands and so on. For example,
{rule1} OR {rule2} OR {rule3} AND {rule4}
might be interpreted by some as "at least one of rule 1, 2, or 3 is holds, and rule 4 also must hold" whereas in reality it's "at least one of rule 1, rule 2, or the combination of rule 3 and rule4 must hold".
That's why I chose to go the easy way out: You only get ors or ands in a single filter, but you can combine filters.
Now, one way to improve on this is allowing more scope in a single rule. For instance, we could combat your situation quite well, as the or's are all on the one field, so the 3 rules you have could be combined into a single rule via some sort of multiple select on the genres. Then you combine that rule (via AND) with your watched rule and you're done.
You can't handle all cases in this way though - ideas most welcome
Cheers,
Jonathan
I think that is the problem. There is no good way (that I can think of) to handle things like that. It could group in different ways. I think that it works fine with the smartplaylist though.
It would just be nice to be able to name the smartplaylist whatever you want AND make it show up in a different section (maybe from a dropdown or something). For instance, you could make a smartplaylist that groups the movies together (like die hard) and tell the playlist to list in the movies->titles section and name it die hard series or something like that. I think that may take care of some of the grouping issues that Gamester17 was talking about. But you could also make a smart playlist that grouped genre's and list them somewhere. Then you wouldn't need to have that listing. It could be a smartplaylist instead.
Just an idea.
J_K_M_A_N
- Rand Al Thor - 2009-05-27
On the topic of smartplaylists, I would love to see an option for playlist is:
Movies
TV Shows
Music Videos
Where you can choose, all, two, or just one. It could be done either with tick boxes or a spinner with all the combinations. I ran into this in my previously posted endeavor to create a Christmas playlist for the kids. I wanted to add all the movies who have a genres of Christmas (which I set manually with Media Companion) but also any shows that Christmas, Santa, etc in the Title or plot. I thought that would not only grab any movies that I might have missed with custom genre tags, but also add any tv episodes like the Simpsons Christmas episodes since they would have one of the key words in the plot or title. As far as I know there is still no way to make a mixed movies and tv episode smartplaylist.
Cheers,
Rand
- jmarshall - 2009-05-28
@rand Al Thor: Yeah - the trouble is that some fields only apply to some "content types". I guess in general people would use them in "or" conditions, so it shouldn't really be too much of a problem, however - the pros outweight the cons.
@J_K_M_A_N: You've identified a key difference between "filter nodes" and "category nodes". Filtered nodes just filter the title list by whatever criteria you specify (i.e. they give you the title list of a particular genre for instance). Category nodes, on the other hand, list all possible values from the chosen category, thus giving a hierarchy. Category is useful for browsing all possible genres, Filter is useful for browsing movies within a predefined (set of) genre(s).
Note that it makes no sense for "filter nodes" to be present inside a particular title level node. They're only allowed on the same level (or higher) than a title level node. Title level nodes only list titles (movies or shows). Thus, filter nodes within themselves wouldn't handle "stacking" all your 007 movies in a title listing of all movies. The "stacking" would have to be handled separately, and to be honest, I'm not sure at this point quite how to handle that - will have a think about it. I'm always concerned about over generalizing to the point where it becomes unmanageable for the user. There's a subtle difference in filtering and stacking: Filtering removes items that don't match the filter, whereas stacking combines items that match the filter, and leaves items that don't match alone.
For the filters/smartplaylists, my thinking is the filters that are applied "on the fly" to a particular listing would basically be made up of a single "rule" as is currently in the smartplaylist editor.
The rule dialog would be enhanced, however. I'm think of a list of all fields that may be filtered on, where you can select the conditions to apply to each field in turn. This allows rules to span several fields, perhaps with a switch to toggle from AND or OR between fields. Clicking on the "genre" field for instance would popup a multiselect dialog allowing you to choose which genres you want included. Multiple selections would be OR, ofcourse. For time based fields you'd have a range you can specify in some way (eg before X, after X, between X and Y). For non-category fields (eg title, plot etc.) it'd be a "contains" or "doesn't contain" thing.
Key points:
* a single "filter" or "rule" encompasses a single condition per field.
* each condition is simplified in some cases (non-category fields either "contains" or "doesn't contain", and enhanced in others (multi-select on category fields).
* some fields we currently have may need dropping in some cases, due to managability (actors for instance are hard to filter on - imagine a multi-select dialog with 10000 actors in it...)
Comments most welcome.
Cheers,
Jonathan
- TeknoJnky - 2009-05-28
Speaking of recently added, I would like the existing 'recently added movies/episodes' to actually show recently added (as in file date preferably) instead of recently added/updated/refreshed.
refreshing existing movie's/episode's info, should not cause them to be re-added to the recently added list.
- sho - 2009-05-28
This is the root cause of that.
http://trac.xbmc.org/ticket/4389
If addressed, it would take care of your issue.
- Rand Al Thor - 2009-05-28
jmarshall Wrote:@rand Al Thor: Yeah - the trouble is that some fields only apply to some "content types". I guess in general people would use them in "or" conditions, so it shouldn't really be too much of a problem, however - the pros outweight the cons.
This might be over complicating it, but lets say you want a Smartplaylist that is both Movies and Tv Shows. You could put a tick box next to each of them and then have two sets of criteria for returning true, one for each type. So you would have something like:
Movies:
Genre IS Christmas
and
MPAA Rating IS NOT R
TV Shows:
Episode Title Contains Christmas
Or
Plot Contains Christmas
Or
Plot Contains Santa
Like I said, it might over complicate but at least it would allow for specific criteria for each section.
Rand
- jmarshall - 2009-05-28
Yeah, IMO that's making it over complicated - after all, some fields (as many as possible) will apply to both equally well. There could also be more than one "Movie" library and more than one "TV library" involved which would make things messier.
Instead, I think the same thing could be achieved by applying all conditions to each library, ignoring those that don't apply. Your kid-friendly movies can be separate anyway, in case you don't approve of them watching Bad Santa
Cheers,
Jonathan
- Rand Al Thor - 2009-05-28
That's pretty much what I figured
I think the new features for the Video Library sound awesome. Can't wait to have a play with 'em.Rand
- freezy - 2009-05-29
Hello Jonathan,
This is probably semi OT as well. I have ~1000 movies in the library and I'm 90% browsing by recently added. However, when I rescrape (which happens quite often), all the items obviously have the same "add" date. This is the reason I mostly browse in file mode so I can sort by (folder)date. I'm talking about rescraping the libary from scratch, not just refreshing one item, which already a known issue on trac.
Now, it would be really really great if the folder (or file) date of the movie could be added to the database, so we can sort by date in the library. I acknowledge that architecturally speaking, the physical attributes of the media has nothing to do with its meta data, but I don't see any other way. Sorting by year isn't going to do the trick, and the official release dates aren't in the database either (AFAIK).
BTW reading the blog with much interest (though a lil' late this time).
Cheers,
-freezy.
- Rusti - 2009-05-30
Is it possible to get the file mode to display the plot or outline? Updating the library is tedious imo. Is it possible for XBMC to just read the poster and .nfo/.xml on the fly?
I dont need the library for all its bells and whistles. Just want a poster and something describing the movie. Using something like Media Companion, I can take care of this quickly on the media server and build a xml structured .nfo and put a folder.jpg and .tbn with the media file. It would be great to just be able to use the Xbox to browse to the folder and have .nfo be read (and cached). The poster already shows in file mode which is great.
If I do have to use the library my biggest issue is trying to access hundreds of movies effectively. I have older movies which would need searching, but I also want the newly downloaded movies to feature as that's what everyone wants to see. Just like freezy above, when you rebuild the library the recently added feature dies.
The year feature works well but is not very easy to use as there is no way to only show one year and then sort further in there by, say, name.
A feature I think that should be implemented is jump to: via SMS lettering. There has been a mod where you can use the remote as a way to jump to certain letters instead of trying to scroll down to something starting with M.
- jmarshall - 2009-05-30
1. YES you'll be able to browse your library by your folder structure with all metadata available.
2. YES you'll get the "hdflagging" stuff.
3. YES you'll be able to group series of movies together.
4. YES you'll be able to completely specify each and every "filter" or "category" node (such as recently added movies) including how many items to display.
5. YES the recently added movies will be exactly that - no rescrapes showing up, only new stuff.
6. YES all the stuff we already have will still be available, such as SMS jumping and the like.
There's not a lot more for me to say - I've got a lot of work/research to do in checking that what I want to be able to do is doable.
Cheers,
Jonathan
- J_K_M_A_N - 2009-05-30
jmarshall Wrote:1. YES you'll be able to browse your library by your folder structure with all metadata available.
2. YES you'll get the "hdflagging" stuff.
3. YES you'll be able to group series of movies together.
4. YES you'll be able to completely specify each and every "filter" or "category" node (such as recently added movies) including how many items to display.
5. YES the recently added movies will be exactly that - no rescrapes showing up, only new stuff.
6. YES all the stuff we already have will still be available, such as SMS jumping and the like.
There's not a lot more for me to say - I've got a lot of work/research to do in checking that what I want to be able to do is doable.
Cheers,
Jonathan
All I can say is good luck. It sounds like a monumental task but I for one can't wait to see it! It sounds fantastic! I wish I could help.
J_K_M_A_N
- Jeroen - 2009-05-30
jmarshall Wrote:5. YES the recently added movies will be exactly that - no rescrapes showing up, only new stuff.
Sweet, that'll fix one of my biggest (of few) annoyances
- buzzra - 2009-05-31
jmarshall Wrote:1. YES you'll be able to browse your library by your folder structure with all metadata available.
2. YES you'll get the "hdflagging" stuff.
3. YES you'll be able to group series of movies together.
4. YES you'll be able to completely specify each and every "filter" or "category" node (such as recently added movies) including how many items to display.
5. YES the recently added movies will be exactly that - no rescrapes showing up, only new stuff.
6. YES all the stuff we already have will still be available, such as SMS jumping and the like.
There's not a lot more for me to say - I've got a lot of work/research to do in checking that what I want to be able to do is doable.
Cheers,
Jonathan
This sounds awesome! I can't wait to try it out. Like Jeroen, #5 will fix, pretty much the only, (minor) problem I have.
I have been using XBMC since it was XBMP and I still use it on an Xbox. I am planning an HTPC build and new HD TV purchase solely because of the existence of XBMC. These library enhancements will only make the experience that much better.
Thanks.
buzz