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+--- Thread: Hacking the Boxee Box to run XBMC? (/showthread.php?tid=64578)
- CrashX - 2010-11-28
Telnet Hack for Boxee Update: http://boxeeboxwiki.org/wiki/Obtaining_Root_on_1.0.1.16319
- topfs2 - 2010-11-28
You realize that any trick for root posted on the wiki will eventually be fixed / removed by boxee
They really don't seem to want xbmc on there. Can't see why they are fighting it though since one would think that the better xbmc runs the better boxee could... Also if boxee runs bad xbmc looks bad, and for no reason. There is a possible win-win here... And I personally don't believe that netflix is the entire story tbh.
- poofyhairguy - 2010-11-28
tsella Wrote:the reality of it is that premium content providers are not as enthusiast as we are about "running arbitrary code". so the bottom line is that we needed to make changes to make them happy with the platform, and at the end of the day cater for more users - those who care about the content, and not those necessarily that care about running 3rd party apps on on.
There-in lies the big problem for Boxee folks. Heck, it is the big problem for all set-top media streaming boxes (aka GoogleTV as well).
Devices like the Boxee Box are the future. Period. Delivering content over the net is efficient and Netflix has proven it can be successful.
The problem is that content providers are terrified of this future. Revenue from internet streaming is a fraction of what they get from the older distribution channels of OTA and cable. Therefore they have a major incentive to keep the best content off of the set-top boxes that are easy enough to replace cable for most people.
But people won't buy set top boxes without content, and the masses don't want "every B movie released in 80s." They want major content- the kind of stuff Hulu gets and the exact kind of stuff the content providers DON'T want on a box on top of your TV unless you are paying the cable company $100 a month.
Add to this the paranoia the media overlords have about internet streaming (they are scared for crappy SD flash streams of their shows to be steal-able even though the Usenet has everything in HD) and I think more than one Boxee group is gonna fail in order for this revolution to take off. I mean, if Google TV can't get good content with their resources, how is Boxee supposed to?
Honestly I think I see the solution in a place many XBMCers don't like- Plex. Plex is not the answer (no OSX only software is), but the Plex developer's attitude of "screw you content providers, we will force Hulu to submit to the wills of a 10 foot interface and if you don't like it have fun keeping ahead of our army of pluggin developers who fix the pluggin every time you change your site to stop what we are doing." The Play On people are in the same boat. Only by giving the middle finger to content providers, and forcing them through the power of technology to understand that the old days of them controlling distribution is over is the only way to break them down enough to get the compromise needed to make these boxes work.
There can be no compromise yet in this space because the media overlords don't know that the horse is out the barn. They still think they have all the control, and that they can still decide what happens with their content like its the 70's still. They will NEVER agree to giving a set-top box like Boxee decent content until they feel it is the only option. Not until they are shown that the technology exists to overcome every barrier they put in their way will they give up.
Once they give up, then someone like Boxee can cut a deal to put real content on their boxes. Till then it is yet another half-done toy for geeks.
And honestly too, I think eventually the Boxee folks will give up. I don't care what their 5 year plan was- if they don't sell enough Boxee Boxes Dlink will end the Boxee movement right here and now. The fastest way of doing this is helping us turn it into a cheap XBMC box- aka be able to turn it into a box for the media overlords to hate.
Give them a few months of poor sales and they will change their tune, and they will outright help us put XBMC on the Boxee Box. By then though it might be too late...
- NoPantsJim - 2010-11-28
I really want to find the clip of Avner on Hak5 going out of his way to emphasize how hack-friendly the Boxee Box would be. Once I do I'll link it here.
- topfs2 - 2010-11-28
poofyhairguy Wrote:Give them a few months of poor sales and they will change their tune, and they will outright help us put XBMC on the Boxee Box. By then though it might be too late...
The thing I'm afraid of is that it might just destroy our reputation and possibility of making a XBMC Box (note I'm not saying it will happen, just that the possibility of it happening goes down) but also any other company wanting to make an end user XBMC based product. Afterall what dlink and other companies sees is a XBMC Powered box which doesn't work well, and I don't mean the streaming content here (even though its abysmal) but just all the other stuff like deadlocks on playback and failing network setups. For that latter I even tried helping but was ignored.
- Hannes The Hun - 2010-11-28
@bag_ass: YOU should worry about YOUR reputation here...
- BAG_Ass - 2010-11-29
Hannes The Hun
with deleted post - not sure. But i will silence some time.
- Dutch_Razor - 2010-11-29
tsella Wrote:ouch guys. some of the commentary here is nasty, and for no reason.
at any rate, I do want to chime in to this discussion. when we started the port to embedded devices, we certainly wanted to allow for xbmc to run on it, we said so in many occasions.
the reality of it is that premium content providers are not as enthusiast as we are about "running arbitrary code". so the bottom line is that we needed to make changes to make them happy with the platform, and at the end of the day cater for more users - those who care about the content, and not those necessarily that care about running 3rd party apps on on.
you can see this same situation with Android, this sums it up pretty well.
Excuse me, for no reason?
Currently, since I'm outside the United States, I have a box here that runs almost zero online content, and doesn't fare much better on local content.
A show recently added to a network share takes a day to show up properly in the "TV Shows" browser, the rescan button only suggests the Box to rescan, and all this is if the Box can even find the network share at all! Which mind you, is not even that often for Samba shares which show up 100% of the time on my Macbook.
Sorry if this sounds so negative, but that's just how my experience currently is, and there have been many times I considered hooking my laptop back on the TV and starting XBMC, because that always works.
- poofyhairguy - 2010-11-29
topfs2 Wrote:The thing I'm afraid of is that it might just destroy our reputation and possibility of making a XBMC Box (note I'm not saying it will happen, just that the possibility of it happening goes down) but also any other company wanting to make an end user XBMC based product. Afterall what dlink and other companies sees is a XBMC Powered box which doesn't work well, and I don't mean the streaming content here (even though its abysmal) but just all the other stuff like deadlocks on playback and failing network setups. For that latter I even tried helping but was ignored.
That is the Boxee problem I think- with a non-open development model (and outright rejections of help) it can't sustain the growth needed to be successful.
I wouldn't be afraid of XBMC's future based on Boxee though, as its multiplatform and open roots have ensured its continued improvement and existence after a few (and one HUGE) platform deadend.
- sebj - 2010-11-29
....well, in the end, I chose to return the boxee box dur to BS overdose.
There was way to many things that made it a tough sell in our household.
If xbmc ever comes to it though, I'll definitely pick another up, the hardware itself was pretty cool. Playback was awesome and it's an efficient little box no doubt.
Gotta say, I rarely return gadgets... So it's really gotta suck
- BAG_Ass - 2010-11-29
sebj
+1000
- FFFFFFUUUUUUUUU - 2010-11-29
Lest Boxee forget, XBMC came into existence on a closed, proprietary hardware platform, which couldn't even be legally distributed in executable format.
If Boxee/Dlink think plugging holes to prevent root access will stop developers they are definitely waging a losing battle. And more than anybody, THEY should bloody understand that! History will repeat, so why continue to fight it?
I'm so disheartened by tsella's comments. But ok, I accept it. You got your VC money and now you gotta demonstrate some value to your investors, and you gotta prove you have a robust platform to your partners. That's fine. Clearly your core user base today doesn't see streaming video to be as important as you do, but who knows, perhaps in a few years we'll all be referring to the Boxee team as visionaries.
But seriously, at best, if Boxee really thinks XBMC is a threat, please just IGNORE it - just pretend XBMC doesn't even exist, and your precious content partners will never be the wiser. Going out of your way to make it difficult (but NOT impossible) to install XBMC will only make you guys look like assholes, which I am certain the Boxee team are not.
- CrashX - 2010-11-29
WDTV LIVE and Apple TV 2 both support netflix and they are hacked to have ROOT access.
I purpose that Boxee give us option for dual boot ( XBMC (USB) and Boxee ) for now to attract more users to Boxee Box. That way people have a choice, hence will wait for Boxee Box to mature. XBMC source port will be maintained by XBMC team with binaries be build weekly by Boxee.
- ashlar - 2010-11-29
Wow, I forgot about this for a while and... did not expect something so "broken" to come out of Boxee. Too bad. Luckily the alternatives abound.
- gnarfy - 2010-11-29
I did some test this weekend, and the 0.9 version of the software is way better.. so, if you hate the no-telnet and everything of the 1.0+. just restore to 0.9 and disable the update !