3DTV Support - Play "3D" Movies in XBMC plus have GUI / OSD and subtitles just work? - Printable Version
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- aptalca - 2010-07-07 16:17
I can actually see xbmc being compatible with DLPLink glasses. They require no emitters or such. The projector or the tv set simply receives a picture with 120 frames per second (as opposed to 60, because it shows one frame for the left eye, followed by a frame for the right eye) and the display inserts extra frames in between left and right frames that allows the glasses to sync.
In that case, the rips would be regular mkvs encoded in 120 frames per second in the left-right-left. . . scheme, xbmc (in fact ffmpeg) would play these like regular mkvs (just with a different framerate) and the display would automatically insert sync frames whenever it detected a 120hz input.
Several projectors and TVs already support this. Only ffmpeg would have to support 120hz mkvs (they already might, I don't know)
- elupus - 2010-07-07 16:31
The double refreshrate method will be tricky, as it will require us syncing playback of frames exactly to the display's hz. This is very hard todo with standard pc's.
The side by side method on the other hand would be abit simpler to support.
- arkryal - 2010-07-07 20:49
aptalca Wrote:I can actually see xbmc being compatible with DLPLink glasses. They require no emitters or such. The projector or the tv set simply receives a picture with 120 frames per second (as opposed to 60, because it shows one frame for the left eye, followed by a frame for the right eye) and the display inserts extra frames in between left and right frames that allows the glasses to sync.
I've done this on my PC at 90FPS using FFMpeg, admittedly using shitty glasses (e-Dimensional I believe). Without an adaptive sync scheme, there was a profound strobing effect. 120Hz would definitely be better, and using professional glasses rather than a sub $100 piece of junk would help, but I don't see closing the gap based on static timing. I suppose a static resync cycle could be worked in, with a 3 defined pauses every 3-4 seconds, with the glasses operating at 120hz and the screen at 110hz, reducing the visibility of errors, but even that may not be enough. Basically you wold force a desync frequently and often enough that it doesn't flicker, at the cost of some perceptive depth and a bit of blur. It's easier on the eyes, but at a loss of some of the realism.
I have access to a variety of 3D output devices, but no 3D compatible TV, only a PC monitor with comparable refresh rates. I'd be happy to test if an ambitious coder takes up this project, but it wouldn't be done in the XBMC code. It would be accomplished with an external decoder most likely. I'd wait to see what FFMpeg or VLC comes up with. Then it's just a matter of detecting 3D content in XBMC and launching the right decoder to view it.
The real issue is there are a limited number of people I've seen here who have a background in this type of work. The wide variation in available hardware makes a universal solution unlikely, at best we could achieve mediocrity for some and nothing for others depending on the systems they choose to support. Even then, it only serves a very small portion of the XBMC user base. I'd love to see 3D support, but it's a lot of work for very little return.
If someone out there thinks the can handle this, and it's a high priority for them, deal me in, I'll be glad to support them with testing. I just don't think many will volunteer for that work.
- aptalca - 2010-07-08 19:25
On here, this dude was able to take the directv espn 3d broadcast, capture it with an AverTV HD DVR capture card, pass it through a stereoscopic player to convert it to frame sequential and output it to his 3d projector in 120Hz format. The projector, upon recognizing a 120Hz input, automatically switches to 3d mode and inserts the sync frames for DLP Link glasses. He's been watching the World cup in 3d on a humongous screen.
The projector is Optoma HD66, it can only take an input of a regular 120Hz frame sequential picture. No side by side or Full frame packing supported on this pj, therefore it is not directly compatible with 3d bluray players or set top boxes. However, it costs only $650 and is 720p.
All we need to do is have mkvs with frames sequential 120 frames per second and have xbmc/ffmpeg output it the same way the stereoscopic player does. That way, it will be compatible with (I believe) all 3d projectors and most 3DTVs (except for the checkerboard ones I guess).
What do you guys think?
- EMK0 - 2010-07-11 16:56
arkryal Wrote:The trouble with XBMC supporting 3d is that the current 3DTV standard proposed relies on shutter glasses. One lens goes black while the other is transparent. Then they switch. This happens 60, 75, 90, 110 or 120 times a second (depending on manufacturer and model), so it's not noticeable... as long as the video stays synced. The glasses fall out of sync often, and different systems running XBMC will have variable frame-rates (that's unavoidable using non-standard hardware like a PC). Sony and others use an IR receiver to let the glasses know when to change based on the frame currently shown. When the glasses are out of sync, they pause and wait for the next frame before continuing. Since this happens so fast, you don't notice it. But unless XBMC can interface with that IR hardware and send signals to the glasses, or receive them and drop a frame (depending on who's 3D system you're using) the glasses/frames won't resync on their own. This creates a strobing effect, makes the picture look dimmer..brighter..dimmer, flickering like a candle, and gives most people headaches. Complicating matters, most do not simply alternate at a fixed interval, it's based on the perceived motion on the screen, screen color etc. Different glasses work at different frequencies. The proposed 3D standard only applies to how the video is encoded and how the discs are made. The sync system in the glasses is not standard, determined solely by the manufacturer of the glasses. XBMC would have to support many different standards which aren't open to independent developers. No one like reverse engineering a hundred different pieces of expensive proprietary hardware, risking patent infringement. They would need to find one manufacturer to support, who in turn would have to be willing to support them. If someone really wanted to pursue this, it would be worth talking to manufacturers first.
Sorry but not gonna happen with next gen consoles, to render something like Avatar requires a massive render farm you really think a next gen console could be this powerfull to render in real time? i cant even imagine the amount of ram it requires to render Avatar.
3D success - bragg2012 - 2010-08-02 16:50
Hi, Just thought I'd post about 3D viewing in XBMC as it seems to OK in my experience.
I've just got a Samsung 3D Ready TV and found some 3D mkv's which were in 'side by side' format. At first I got the mkv running in XBMC and put the TV in 3D side by side mode.
The playback was very juttery and slow, I think this is down to my little Dell Studio Hybrid as it usually stuggles playing 1080p anyway. On this file it was basically trying to play two at once.
Then I managed to get a 'half side by side' mkv which is a 1080p rip but the resolution has been halved width ways so its less intense. This played much better and was watchable, the 3D was almost spot on (bit of crosstalk but I need to tweak my tv settings as its still on default beauts).
I also had to crank up the brightness as its like watching TV with some weak shades on!
- bleze - 2010-08-03 09:55
Seems there are two ways to do MKV side-by-side encodes. Either half res. 1920x1080 (960x1080) or full res 3840x1080 (1920x1080) etc. Which might be way easier to get to work nicely with XBMC than 120 hz mode.
I wonder if there is some way to detect in the MKV if the picture is indeed side-by-side and also wonder how XBMC could tell/signal the TV to automatically shift to side-by-side mode if possible.
If you have a 3D MKV but not a 3D TV then XBMC should only send half the image (either the left or the right one) to the display to get normal 2D. This is useful as you will probably only have one 3D TV initially but can have more than one 2D TV in the house.
No question that the ION platform is fast enough for half res. encodes but I wonder if it will be able to handle full res encodes also. Time will tell as I'm getting 3D TV in a few weeks
- gillone - 2010-08-03 20:07
I have xbmc installed on the same computer that uses StereoscopicPlayer frame sequencing with LCD glasses on a Samsung 3dDLP - glasses sync on the TV's add-on blinker (never got off sync).
So I really think that all it's needed is 120Hz movies - either mkv or avi - when TV detects the 120Hz framerate it enables the 3d mode and everything works.
- gillone - 2010-08-03 20:17
PS not too many movies in field seq format see this site
- bleze - 2010-08-05 08:51
I tried to play a 3840x1080 h264 on my ASRock ION 330 on the build I had on it from February. Sadly it's far for smooth. I saw only about 80-90% CPU use so I guess the GPU is maxed out by the huge image. Re-encoding as 1920x1080 should work fine but goodbye to the great details then