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+---- Thread: 24p and audio sync issues (/showthread.php?tid=80247)
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - torcar - 2012-12-07
This problem has haunted XBMC for years, so it would be fantastic news if this was fixed in the next beta... but I would not hold my breath
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - steelman1991 - 2012-12-07
Its not mate
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - a11599 - 2012-12-09
To my biggest surprise, I suddenly do not have this issue anymore. I am not sure what fixed it as I recently upgraded to Windows 8 (+ 12.10 Catalyst for my 6570) and I also upgraded my old build from February to Frodo ~b2 (the build in my sig). Hardware is 100% the same as before. Audio sync is now spot on without any trickery.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - torcar - 2012-12-09
Just tested with the 12.10 driver for my 6450 and sadly it made no difference.
I hate Win8 just enough to not try a reinstall
So the status is the same here... everything is spot on exept 24p videos.
All other mediaplayers play back 24p perfect on the same rig.
Still crossing fingers that the devs will figure out how to solve this everlasting XBMC bug.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-12-09
it will never be fixed i'm afraid. There is no way to fix a problem if you don't acknowledge the problem to begin with. I believe it will work fine if you turn off sync to display and then you will drop frames or you can fix sync to display to work correctly. Unfortunately, in the year and a half that i've been using xbmc, no one will fix that and its not in my skill set to do it.
reclock does it fine, jriver does it fine with reclock. heck xbmc does it fine with sync to display with anythiing other than 24hz which really is 23.976 and I still firmly believe that its not working because xbmc is not getting the refresh rate correctly for 23.976 and instead reading it as 24hz no matter what you have it set to on your graphics card.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - werie - 2012-12-12
I have fixed this issue for me...
I don't think this will fix it for everyone, but maybe i can help some of you people.
I'm going to tell the whole story and how i have solved this issue for me.
So “we” (me and my wife) used several media players over these years like XBMC on a barebone pc (long time ago), Popcorn C200, Xtreamer Sidewinder, Xtreamer Prodigy, Boxee Box.
We got 4 places to watch media: living room, bedroom, cinema\gaming room and the office.
The Setups:
All devices in my house is wired on gigabit cat6e cable with off course gigabit switches.
My media is shared on a Synology DS1812 NAS using SMB for windows (only popcorn c200 uses NFS)
All my devices (media players, settop boxes and gaming consoles) are hdmi wired trough every of my audio\video receivers and I always use bit streaming on the devices that can handle it.
Living room hardware:
TV: Panasonic VT30 3D 1080p 50” Plasma.
HD Audio\Video Receiver: Denon hdmi 1.4 with 3D support
Media players: Xtreamer Prodigy & Apple TV
Bedroom:
TV: Samsung 46” 3D1080p LED LCD
HD Audio\Video Receiver: Onkyo hdmi 1.4 with 3D support
Media players: Boxee Box & Apple TV
Cinema\Gaming room:
130” Cinema Permscreen
Panasonic PT-2000 1080P projector with 24p support
HD Audio\Video Receiver: Onkyo hdmi 1.4 with 3D support
Media Player: Popcorn C200 (still use it for excellent bd-iso support en HD audio bit streaming is working perfect)
Office:
Monitor: 27” Dell Ultrasharp U2711
Media Player: Xtreamer Sidewinder.
Everything was working fine for several month\years but after seeing constellation on an IPad at my friend’s house controlling XBMC I wanted to own my own XBMC setup again.
3 months ago I bought an Asrock ION 3D 152B mini pc with an NVidia GT218-ION video chipset to replace the Xtreamer Prodigy in the living room so that the prodigy would replace the old Xtreamer sidewinder in the office.
I Installed Windows7 with XBMC EDEN 11.0 using it with the Aeon Nox skin.
We watched all movies & tv series without any problems for over 2 months in the living room (off course automatically frame rate change is on).
I had no lip-sync issues on any material (I am a critical watcher and I notice flaws like lip-sync issues, subtitle issues very fast).
The XBMC experience was very good, so +\- 2 months later we decided to replace the Boxee Box in the bedroom with a 2nd Asrock ION 3D 152B (exactly the same as the first one).
Windows8 just came out and also the first beta of Frodo was out when I received my 2nd Asrock.
So I decided to install them on the new Asrock, then the lip-sync issues began in the bedroom.
Without knowing about the 24p issues that a lot of users were having I sorted out that I only had it on 24p material. When I set not to change the refresh rate and leave it as (60 Hz) is I had no sync issues with the 24p material. My offset was: delay -0.175 to have a good sync, sync settings on my audio\video receiver was not changing anything notable.
First I thought it was one of the drivers like NVidia GPU or ION chipset (BIOS was the newest like my other Asrock) and I was using the newest drivers of all my devices and the same that I was using for my other Asrock on Windows7.
Then I thought it was XBMC Frodo so I took all the XBMC EDEN related folders on my 1st Asrock player and copied it to my new Asrock so that I had exactly the same settings etc. but still lip sync issues.
So then i thought it was windows8, so I formatted en installed Windows7 with XBMC EDEN with all the same drivers as my 1st Asrock ION and guess what, still the same sync issues.
Only thing that came up at that moment that my new Asrock had a hardware flaw, but I still wasn’t sure if maybe I forgot some config or whatever what I set on the first ION that was working perfectly in the living room.
So I took the harddrive out the Asrock from the living room and put that one in the 2nd Asrock from the bedroom and guess what… still sync issues, then I put the harddrive from my 2nd Asrock that was having the sync issues in my 1st Asrock from the living room and had “NO” sync issues in the living room.
So now I knew it was not the windows\xbmc that was causing this issue, but that was not good at all because the only thing I came up with is that the 2nd Asrock must have a hardware flaw that was causing this.
I then searched the internet and read about the 24p issues that a lot of people were having but on different devices running XBMC. What bothered me was that a lot of users were having the exact same delay of -0,175 on the sync issues. I was very confused like u guys and left it like it is.
Don’t ask me why but a couple of days later I did something that I had to do in the very beginning when I saw the sync issues in the bed room.
I picked the perfect working Asrock from the living room and connected it in the bedroom and guess what SYNC ISSUES, I connected my 2nd Asrock in the living room and now that one had “NO” sync issues at all.
Immediately I knew it must be my other hardware in the bedroom the tv or audio\video receiver or maybe the HDMI cables.
So I connected the Asrock directly to the TV without the audio\video receiver and damn still sync issues…
Maybe try another HDMI cable.. but still sync issues…
I connected both Asrock players in the living room… both players were working perfect in sync on my Panasonic plasma.
So then I knew it .. it was my Samsung LED LCD in the bedroom that was causing this problem.
Strange thing was that I had the Boxee Box and before that an Xtreamer sidewinder connected to this screen and never had issues with lip sync on 24p material. And still not if I connected the Boxee Box again.
I left it like it was and became watching with the delay of -0175 in place in the bedroom.
After a couple of days we were going to watch a movie in the living room.
Every time the Asrock boots into windows my Panasonic plasma automatically changes my tv into gaming mode (pop-up comes on screen telling me gaming mode is on) Damn I see this every time why didn’t I came up with this earlier.
I knew my Samsung tv in the bedroom also has an option to turn on “gaming mode”
So I went to the bedroom and search for that option in my tv menu and turned it on, and changed the delay to zero.
And guess what that was my solution.
I think there are some HDMI handshake issues with my Samsung 3D tv or that the Asrock NVIDIA GPU can’t get the DMT\refresh rate settings right for it or the TV gives wrong info to the Nvidia GPU.
I have been watching for a couple of days in the bedroom and the sync settings are gone. When I turn gaming mode off they are back again. So I leave it turned on. (had to calibrate my Samsung tv again in this setup)
I hope this is a solution for some of u guys if not this is a lot of reading material..
Greetings
Werie (The Netherlands)
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - Aemstel - 2012-12-14
I am also still having these 24p sync problems. I am on frodo RC1 now, but have had these issues for a long time. I think something is going wrong when XBMC is switching the refresh rate to match the video when starting a video. When I set my resolution in windows to 1920x1080 24hz, and disable the 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' option in XBMC, all 24p content plays smooth and in sync. A thing to note as well is that my panasonic TV is not actually true 24p, although it is marketed as such. It doesn't have 23.976hz, only 23hz and 24hz.
To sum it up, I get these results when playing 24p content with various settings:
1. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 60hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' on, 'sync playback to display' on or off --> video plays smoothly, audio is out of sync
2. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 60hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' off, 'sync playback to display' on --> video plays smoothly, audio is out of sync (although slightly less than option 1)
3. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 60hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' off, 'sync playback to display' off --> video plays juddery, audio is in sync
4. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 24hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' off, 'sync playback to display' off --> video plays smoothly, audio is in sync
So only the 4th option fixes all 24p playback issues for me, but of course, setting the desktop resolution to 24hz gives lousy results in everything else, like the XBMC interface. So again, it looks like something is going wrong with the sync when XBMC automatically switches my display refresh rate.
Hope this info is useful. I can do more tests if needed.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-12-14
(2012-12-14, 01:03)Aemstel Wrote: I am also still having these 24p sync problems. I am on frodo RC1 now, but have had these issues for a long time. I think something is going wrong when XBMC is switching the refresh rate to match the video when starting a video. When I set my resolution in windows to 1920x1080 24hz, and disable the 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' option in XBMC, all 24p content plays smooth and in sync. A thing to note as well is that my panasonic TV is not actually true 24p, although it is marketed as such. It doesn't have 23.976hz, only 23hz and 24hz.
To sum it up, I get these results when playing 24p content with various settings:
1. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 60hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' on, 'sync playback to display' on or off --> video plays smoothly, audio is out of sync
2. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 60hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' off, 'sync playback to display' on --> video plays smoothly, audio is out of sync (although slightly less than option 1)
3. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 60hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' off, 'sync playback to display' off --> video plays juddery, audio is in sync
4. Desktop resolution 1920x1080 24hz, 'adjust display refresh rate to match video' off, 'sync playback to display' off --> video plays smoothly, audio is in sync
So only the 4th option fixes all 24p playback issues for me, but of course, setting the desktop resolution to 24hz gives lousy results in everything else, like the XBMC interface. So again, it looks like something is going wrong with the sync when XBMC automatically switches my display refresh rate.
Hope this info is useful. I can do more tests if needed.
I can sum up what you said much easier than all of that, option 4 works because you turned off the thing that has a problem, which is sync playback to display, but without sync playback to display, you will drop or repeat frames, so it may seem smooth and audio will stay in sync, but you will drop frames which is noticable and once you notice it, you can't really unnotice it.
I still think this has nothing to do with the refresh rate, if people are fixing it by not having it select refresh rate, the only thing that can be happening is they are watching their movies at 60 hz instead of 24hz, audio should be fine then, but of course you will have jitter the whole time. some people won't notice that either.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - Aemstel - 2012-12-14
(2012-12-14, 01:27)robl45 Wrote: I can sum up what you said much easier than all of that, option 4 works because you turned off the thing that has a problem, which is sync playback to display, but without sync playback to display, you will drop or repeat frames, so it may seem smooth and audio will stay in sync, but you will drop frames which is noticable and once you notice it, you can't really unnotice it.
I still think this has nothing to do with the refresh rate, if people are fixing it by not having it select refresh rate, the only thing that can be happening is they are watching their movies at 60 hz instead of 24hz, audio should be fine then, but of course you will have jitter the whole time. some people won't notice that either.
Yes ok, but the thing is that I actually AM playing at 24hz, without the xbmc auto adjust, since I set my display to 1920x1080 24hz in nvidia display settings. If I do this, then 24p content plays in sync. But if I set my display to 60hz and let XBMC switch the refresh rate when playing 24p content, then it does not play in sync. And you're also right about the jitter. That's almost as bad as the desynced audio. Both make it unwatchable to me.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-12-14
Yes, but again you turned off sync to display as well. Likely the auto refresh may be selecting a wrong rate. At any rate, the only way you've made it "work" is by turning off features that are pretty necessary so it's still broken.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - Aemstel - 2012-12-14
Of course it doesn't work, switching the desktop to 24hz is definitely not a fix. I am simply trying to give some more information that might be helpful into finally fixing this issue.
The thing is that it's not that XBMC can't play 24p correctly on my hardware, but it goes wrong when it switches the display refresh rate automatically.
So like you say, maybe it selects the wrong refresh rate or something. Not having a 23.976 refresh rate may be the cause of this. Maybe it chooses 23hz, instead of 24hz. That could be something worth looking into, right?
Another important thing that I forgot to mention is that I'm almost positive that it did work fine in frodo alpha 3 and some of the early AE test builds. So it seems to me that some timing issue with the auto refresh rate change keeps popping up again.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-12-14
at this point if switching the desktop to 24hz fixed it, I would gladly do it. But it doesn't matter anyway because the sync to display is not working. Likely the settings that you have are not straight 23 or 24, the 23 is probably something that is trying to approximate 23.976.
It would be interesting if someone could try a straight 24hz and see if that fixed the problem or a straight 96 hz and see if the problem is better. I wonder if it works on they are round numbers and the 24p is really 23.976,
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - pleccy - 2012-12-15
I too have tried all the aforementioned suggestions and have same the problem with audio sync with 24hz material that everyone else is getting. (for me i need a -200ms delay to sync correctly)
There is a simple fix that would work for everyone:
Currently you can set the delay in the menu to say -200ms.... Then you can check the option that says: "Use this as default for all videos"
All that's needed is for there to be multiple options. For example
"Use this as default for all 24hz videos"
So the theory would be that if it detects source material with 24fps, then it applies the user set delay. If the source material is anything else (eg non 24p) then it will not apply a delay (thus not affecting 50hz or 60Hz video)
I'm sure this would work? I'm not a programmer just applying logic in order to find a solution to this very frustrating problem.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - steelman1991 - 2012-12-15
(2012-12-15, 09:24)pleccy Wrote: I too have tried all the aforementioned suggestions and have same the problem with audio sync with 24hz material that everyone else is getting. (for me i need a -200ms delay to sync correctly)
There is a simple fix that would work for everyone:
Currently you can set the delay in the menu to say -200ms.... Then you can check the option that says: "Use this as default for all videos"
All that's needed is for there to be multiple options. For example
"Use this as default for all 24hz videos"
So the theory would be that if it detects source material with 24fps, then it applies the user set delay. If the source material is anything else (eg non 24p) then it will not apply a delay (thus not affecting 50hz or 60Hz video)
I'm sure this would work? I'm not a programmer just applying logic in order to find a solution to this very frustrating problem.
Already available.
Have a look in the Wiki for advancedsettings, video latency (delays) can be applied for individual frame rates.
RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-12-15
different containers and different types of films sd/hd types can cause different delays, that would be quite a mountainous task to get the delays right for everything and even then, its still broken and not right.
at this point the simple solution would be to scrap sync to display and make it so people can use reclock as the audio renderer. The only problem with that solution is their doesn't seem to be a similar thing for linux
(2012-12-15, 09:24)pleccy Wrote: I too have tried all the aforementioned suggestions and have same the problem with audio sync with 24hz material that everyone else is getting. (for me i need a -200ms delay to sync correctly)
There is a simple fix that would work for everyone:
Currently you can set the delay in the menu to say -200ms.... Then you can check the option that says: "Use this as default for all videos"
All that's needed is for there to be multiple options. For example
"Use this as default for all 24hz videos"
So the theory would be that if it detects source material with 24fps, then it applies the user set delay. If the source material is anything else (eg non 24p) then it will not apply a delay (thus not affecting 50hz or 60Hz video)
I'm sure this would work? I'm not a programmer just applying logic in order to find a solution to this very frustrating problem.