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Raid 5 vs. Raid-10 - What is better for mediapc, what happens if MB defect?
#91
Wanted to add my 2c here.
When shopping for hardware be CAREFUL! Remember;

Stability!!! #1 feature of a NAS is STABILITY! Your motherboard, PSU and memory choice can make or break hardware stability.
Buy a QUALITY motherboard
Buy a QUALITY PSU.
100$ extra is worth it for stability!
Price is NOT everything! You'll loose more money in the long run fighting with shitty hardware

Software stability! Run tried and tested software on your NAS! Dont go for the beta builds! Let someone else test with their data.

I recommend ZFSGuru if you can handle a BSD/Linux OS and want ZFS
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#92
Loto_Bak Wrote:Buy a QUALITY PSU.

Is Corsair CMPSU-430CX 430W Power Supply a "Quality" PSU for you? or what do you understand under this term?
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#93
Image

Review: Corsair CX430 430W
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#94
Look at the reviews for the units you find. I really like http://hardocp.com PSU reviews.
Output quality is really important, the review should address DC ripple. Ripple is hard on motherboard components.
same with the quality of the capacitors they put in the unit, crappy caps mean premature failure.
If the review doesnt address these things (alot of review just talk about output capacity) then its not a good review.
Also dont assume a companies lineup is good because one unit gets a good review either. Most suppliers don't build their own units, they simply slap their name on one they buy. One unit might be quality while another is from a terrible manufacturer. (corsair included, at least in the past)

PSU is important, but motherboard quality is the #1 component for stability. I've bought cheap boards before and sometimes they're fine, but often they have real pain in the ass quirks. I've had boards that wont boot from some USB sticks, flakey PCI busses (not that we want to use PCI anymore), or having to degrade ram perforamance to get it stable

This might be a good link for you guys http://www.servethehome.com/entry-diy-st...mber-2010/

I run a ~20tb server at the moment and when I upgrade my motherboard I'm definately going to a server board next time. something like this http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x...ontroller/ Smile
Little overkill for a little server though
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#95
a $300 motherboard!! expensive!!
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#96
From the article
Quote:Value Proposition

When looking at a $300 motherboard, many users may automatically dismiss the hardware as overly expensive. On the other hand, the Supermicro X8SI6-F has an onboard equivelant of a $260 LSI 9211-8i and dual Intel Gigabit CT (EXPI9301CTBLK) network adapters ($35 each). Just those three components alone would cost more than $330 if purchased separately. The caveat, of course, is that one wants to use Intel network adapters (highly likely) and a LSI SAS 2008 based SAS controller. If this is the case, then the price of the motherboard is, in fact, less than the cost of the discrete components. Compared to adding these components to a consumer level motherboard, this solution presents a clear cost savings. With the exception of those users running FreeBSD versions prior to release 9-Current, the value of having all of the KVM-over-IP and IPMI 2.0 features is priceless.
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#97
Loto_Bak Wrote:Value Proposition

When looking at a $300 motherboard, many users may automatically dismiss the hardware as overly expensive. On the other hand, the Supermicro X8SI6-F has an onboard equivelant of a $260 LSI 9211-8i and dual Intel Gigabit CT (EXPI9301CTBLK) network adapters ($35 each). Just those three components alone would cost more than $330 if purchased separately. The caveat, of course, is that one wants to use Intel network adapters (highly likely) and a LSI SAS 2008 based SAS controller. If this is the case, then the price of the motherboard is, in fact, less than the cost of the discrete components. Compared to adding these components to a consumer level motherboard, this solution presents a clear cost savings. With the exception of those users running FreeBSD versions prior to release 9-Current, the value of having all of the KVM-over-IP and IPMI 2.0 features is priceless.

Why pay $300 compared to this motherboard. The motherboard is unavailable from newegg but is available other places for $70. It has 6 SATA slots available and this guy uses it in all his setups.
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#98
My next raid 40T will most likely be raid 6 and XFS.
Poofyhairguy, why do you like zfs over xfs?
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#99
Quote:Why pay $300 compared to this motherboard. The motherboard is unavailable from newegg but is available other places for $70. It has 6 SATA slots available and this guy uses it in all his setups.
This motherboard has 6 onboard SATA plus the onboard LSI controller adds 8 more ports on a PCIe 8x controller. As well by using a HP expander card thoes 8 ports expand into 48. This cannot be done with a standard onboard controller. The HP expander card costs ~150$.
Thats very cheap/port when needing many hard drives

ZFS vs other filesystems is a big topic. Major points are

-ZFS is a copy on write filesystem and every block is checksumed. That means if a file is corrupted when you read it back the filesystem knows this and recovers automatically. This can detect phantom writes, misdirected reads and writes, DMA parity errors, driver bugs and accidental overwrites as well as traditional "bit rot."

-Free space is pooled across all filesystems. For example you could have 10tb of free space, and allocate 5x 10tb filesystems on this. each 10tb filesystem only uses the space that it requires despite allocating 10tb

-Built in compression (and its fast!)

-ZFS is a filesystem, raid system, and disk manager. Everything is encompassed by the ZFS tools. No LVM, no Raid layer
ZFS also does not have the write hole issue so expensive battery backup raid controllers are not needed! If you loose power when running raid you can have parity/data mismatch issues and recover corrupt data. ZFS bypasses this. ZFS loves cheap disks and controllers!

-de-duplication. If two pieces of data are identical on the stoarge pool they only take the space required for one. This can be done at the file or block level. (needs a alot of ram though, this feature is also bleeding edge. Enabled only in the very latest solaris and freebsd kernel)

-Built in NFSv4 ACL, iSCSI* and samba* sharing (* = solaris kernel only. freebsd or linux can use 3rd party tools)

The major downsides to ZFS are;
- Its maintained by oracle now. (Booooo Oracle!)
- You cannot grow Raid-Z1 or Raid-Z2 arrays. RaidZ is like raid5/6 but without the write hole issues. You can add another whole array to your pool to grow it, but you cannot add more disks to an already created array
- No linux kernel driver (yet). There is a userspace FUSE driver, but its slower. Some guys from India are working on it though. I run mine on freebsd, which is awesome and my favorite server OS by far.
- Some performance hits but still very fast. my 7 disk 1tb array in raid-z1 reads ~330mb/sec writes ~150mb/sec.
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Loto_Bak Wrote:ZFS loves cheap disks and controllers!

EXCEPT for Western Digital drives. @(#* Western Digital. They basically took out the ability to enable TLER on their green drives. It's nothing other than a firmware setting, but they intentionally disabled it. I'm really not brand loyal with hard drives (Everyone fails sometime, ZFS takes care of that) but Run away from anything Green and Western Digital.

Loto_Bak Wrote:- No linux kernel driver (yet). There is a userspace FUSE driver, but its slower. Some guys from India are working on it though.

No ZPL with the Linux Kernel, but ZFS works just fine. Right now you can use it and create ext3/ext4, what ever file system you want with it.

http://zfsonlinux.org/

---


darkscout Wrote:And if you have "precious" data and don't want something immature, then you don't want unRAID either.

The Adventures of Nexentaman
ZFS Man
ZFS

Supported by:
FreeBSD
Nexenta (Ubuntu Userspace + OpenSolaris Kernel)
Linux, via FUSE and Kernel Module.
Debian/kFreeBSD
OpenIndiana
Solaris Express 11

And by the "NAS" Device OSes:
FreeNAS
NexentaStor

All free as in beer.
Most free as in speech.
Code:
GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON `xbmc_%`.* TO 'xbmc'@'%';
IF you have a mysql problem, find one of the 4 dozen threads already open.
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ZFS works fine without TLER.

ZFS wont fail drives that are trying to recover. You should NOT enable TLER when using ZFS. Maybe if you were in a production enviroment and the seconds needed to recover were important. In our case leave it disabled even if you can enable it.
With WD green drive you should up the spindown timeout though. By default its only 8 seconds which sucks

The other thing to remember when using new 'advanced format' drives is to use 4k sector sizes. This is very imporatant as performance takes a HUGE hit when making a 512 filesystem (which is default because these drives pretend to be 512k)
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Loto_Bak Wrote:ZFS works fine with TLER.

ZFS wont fail drives that are trying to recover. You should NOT disable TLER when using ZFS. Maybe if you were in a production enviroment and the seconds needed to recover were important. In our case leave it enabled.
With WD green drive you should up the spindown timeout though. By default its only 8 seconds which sucks

The other thing to remember when using new 'advanced format' drives is to use 4k sector sizes. This is very imporatant as performance takes a HUGE hit when making a 512k filesystem (which is default because these drives pretend to be 512k)

Exactly, they pretend to be 512 (no k),and you can't change the TLER settings. They're locked in firmware. On the green drives you can't ENABLE TLER, which means that it's always disabled.
Code:
GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON `xbmc_%`.* TO 'xbmc'@'%';
IF you have a mysql problem, find one of the 4 dozen threads already open.
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Sorry your right, its disabled in firmware.
I ment to say that i doesnt matter that it is disabled. ZFS will run fine with it disabled

and all new drives are basically 4k drives emulating 512. The ones that arnt are usually 5 platter power+heat monsters from the last generation of drives.
The 512 emulation problem can be worked around by creating a 4k sector filesystem. This is trivial with ZFS
*edit and is trivial with most filesystems, at least on freebsd/linux
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Good Read ZFS and others Benchmarked...
For speed and large files ZFS doesn't really seem the way to go to me...
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=ar...arks&num=1
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yeah zfs on linux isnt the best,
its pretty decent on FreeBSD/Solaris though
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Raid 5 vs. Raid-10 - What is better for mediapc, what happens if MB defect?0