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Nikosgr · 2013-01-06, 13:01

Have a look at this link
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-so...ndex2.html

I've made two tests comparing the sound of foobar and xbmc 12rc2 and the outcome is consistent. Xbmc compared with foobar, sounds compressed. The test has been performed using a single mp3 file, wasapi drivers throughout xbmc and foobar in both machines, no dsp or plugins activated. Xbmc audiophile function in advanced settings is set on.

I urge the developers to perform this test for them selves if they haven't already. Xbmc is a wonderful product but there's something going wrong with the sound. I guess a mid-value hifi equipment, or definitely some mid priced studio monitors (mine are worth €500, for the set) and you'll be surprised at the sound difference between them.

Best regards,
Nick

Jbravo · 2013-01-06, 14:27

Is there a way to disable the volume control within XBMC and leave the volume at 100% at all times? This would likley solve some issues related to bit-perfect playback.

JBNY · 2013-01-06, 14:49

Nikosgr,

I wonder if it is the windows implementation of xbmc. I can tell you on the linux and openelec versions of XBMC it sounds pretty good, and notice that if anything I would give the edge to xbmc against foobar and jriver media.

I have run my own comparison using flac files of 16/44.1 and hires 24/48, 24/88, 24/96 flac files and the results have been in favor of xbmc. The OS was linux/openelec xbmc, compared to windows7 using foobar and jriver using wasapi event mode on asynchronous DACs, through some pretty hi-end equipment.

Make sure that replaygain is NOT turned on (it is by default), it changes the sound dramatically IMO and it definitely sounds compressed, mp3 more so than flac. Maybe it is xbmc's implementation of mp3?

Ghostdivision · (This post was last modified: 2013-01-06, 15:28 by Ghostdivision.)

I maybe wrong but one thing I learned on foobar board, is replaygain just lowers the volume, it does not mess with the files in any way.

Although I only use flac.

Unless xbmc is not reading replay gain properly or something. This is out of my league but the audiophiles at hydrogen audio board often challenged people who said replay gain ruins quality.

JBNY · 2013-01-06, 16:07

I agree replay gain should only lower the volume. I find it fine to use with Foobar but not as good with xbmc.

rat666 · (This post was last modified: 2013-01-07, 00:06 by rat666.)

i´ve tried to play a HDCD coded Flac with RC3 and my Receiver didn´t show "HDCD" on the Display (it shows 2Ch PCM), so i don´t think the output is Bitperfect (the HDCD Flag gets lost).
With the Betas of frodo my Receiver switches permanently between HDCD and 2ch PCM.

Nikosgr · 2013-01-07, 00:58

Jbny,

Is there a chance that although I've turned replay gain off, the command does not go through? I would not think this is a possible cause since on the second pc I performed my tests xbmc 12 rc2 was over a clean installation.

Just a thought for the developers though; maybe you can contribute on this. Can I manually instruct xbmc to ignore replay gain via the advancedsettings file for example? One an another note is there a way to cross check the command has gone through?

Ghostdivision · (This post was last modified: 2013-01-07, 11:06 by Ghostdivision.)

(2013-01-06, 16:07)JBNY Wrote: I agree replay gain should only lower the volume. I find it fine to use with Foobar but not as good with xbmc.

Do you have prevent clipping according to peak enabled in xbmc? You might want to try it off or on.

Sorry im just never sure with audiophiles if there hearing placebo or something real.

If xbmc and foobar are both at the same volume (100%) i cant imagine replaygain in xbmc doing anything different or worse, its just a volume control added as a tag. Just would not make sense its worse in xbm since it does not do anything other then apply a change to the volume.

**jjd-uk** · 2013-01-07, 13:01

(2013-01-07, 00:05)rat666 Wrote: i´ve tried to play a HDCD coded Flac with RC3 and my Receiver didn´t show "HDCD" on the Display (it shows 2Ch PCM), so i don´t think the output is Bitperfect (the HDCD Flag gets lost).
With the Betas of frodo my Receiver switches permanently between HDCD and 2ch PCM.

See Post #8 at http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=150846, could this be your issue?

Seem's to be a problem reporting the volume setting correctly at the moment.

Take a look in your guisettings.xml file for

Code:
<audio>

    <mute>false</mute>

    <fvolumelevel>1.000000</fvolumelevel>

</audio>

If is not "fvolumelevel = 1.000000" then change it in the xml file.

**jjd-uk** · 2013-01-07, 13:22

(2013-01-07, 00:58)Nikosgr Wrote: Jbny,

Is there a chance that although I've turned replay gain off, the command does not go through? I would not think this is a possible cause since on the second pc I performed my tests xbmc 12 rc2 was over a clean installation.

Just a thought for the developers though; maybe you can contribute on this. Can I manually instruct xbmc to ignore replay gain via the advancedsettings file for example? One an another note is there a way to cross check the command has gone through?

Check your guisettings.xml file in Userdata, under the <musicplayer> section are the replaygain settings that XBMC will use.

DDDamian · 2013-01-07, 13:58

The logs also show the replaygain value applied (search it for replaygain) - will look like "Final ReplayGain applied: 0.92876" or similar.

Note that replaygain *will* mess with HDCD - the encoding for that is in the lower bits, so even the slightest volume adjustment will wipe that. Turning it off in the GUI disables it - no special as.xml settings required.

Nikosgr · 2013-01-07, 15:15

In which file should I search? guisettings.xml?

**jjd-uk** · 2013-01-07, 15:18

Damain was talking about the xbmc.log file, you may need debug logging enable.

rat666 · 2013-01-07, 23:54

Hi,

(2013-01-07, 13:58)DDDamian Wrote: The logs also show the replaygain value applied (search it for replaygain) - will look like "Final ReplayGain applied: 0.92876" or similar.

Note that replaygain *will* mess with HDCD - the encoding for that is in the lower bits, so even the slightest volume adjustment will wipe that. Turning it off in the GUI disables it - no special as.xml settings required.

ReplayGain is already set to off in GUI and Volume is at 100%, which brings me to the idea that xbmc does something with the Volume setting even when replayGain is set to off.
i will check guisettings.xml and do another test.

Nikosgr · 2013-01-08, 20:29

Ok, I've checked my replay gain value, seems fine. I did another carefull test today. To make a long story short, I can attest to the following. I hadn't compared flac files before, now I have and having carefully compared 4-5 songs I hear no difference between xbmc and foobar. Mp3s is another story;

Each and every mp3 file I played through foobar, would sound less compressed and more dynamic compared to xbmc's playback. A kind note to the developers, please try this at your own setup, no golden ears or hi end equipment is required; just descent.

The recipe:
Wasapi driver for both xbmc and foobar
No dsp
No replay gain
No over sampling
Volume at 100% for both

I suspect it should be something going wrong with the mp3 decoder. I hope other users or the developers will be able to reproduce this on their own setups so we can start from somewhere.