Solved Issue 10-bit h264 (Hi10) Support?

ZERO <ibis> Wrote:Is there any more word on support for this in the future. It appears that more players are starting to pick this up and it looks like fan sub groups will begin to make full releases in it starting in the fall. In addition some groups are already redoing all BluRay content in 10-bit.

I can also say that for those of us that want to digitize our blurays for easy playback the new 10-bit encoding offers a way to dramatically reduce file size while improving quality.

It's already supported in ffmpeg. Unless they intend on going through the trouble of pulling the changes out, it'll be in XBMC 11.0.

It doesn't work with video acceleration however, so low-end boxes and HTPCs are screwed.

Life... she is full of compromises.

I have been doing some reading on hi10p since these anime distributors are all running towards it head on, not caring how anyone else feels on the situation.
The one thing I am really wondering about, is it even possible to have hardware acceleration of 10-bit encodes on future codecs with current hardware? I am just thinking of all of these people with HTPCs built from laptops, netbooks, and ion based boards being SOL.
I do see a huge benefit for 10-bit encoding, moreso for us who backup our movies onto NAS boxes for their network. Allowing more movies with the same space, saving the need to buy more hard drives and saving money in the long run.
As I said, these encoders dont really care about anyone else though. One comment I came across was "thats what you people get for buying such devices" referring to someone using a WD box.

CharredChar Wrote:The one thing I am really wondering about, is it even possible to have hardware acceleration of 10-bit encodes on future codecs with current hardware?

I put in a question on the nvidia forums trying to get an answer to that. From what I've read, it doesn't seem to be a deficiency in the video acceleration libraries / codecs, but is something that is dependent on the profiles in the hardware itself. Maybe a firmware update could do some magic -- yet I couldn't imagine doing a firmware update for a GPU -- but more than likely there's nothing that can be done except to buy new hardware, if Hi10p decoding hardware ever becomes available for the consumer market. (Which seems a bit unlikely for the near future because manufacturers don't see widespread adoption of 10-bit color display devices yet, which is what this is really intended for.)

Quote:As I said, these encoders dont really care about anyone else though. One comment I came across was "thats what you people get for buying such devices" referring to someone using a WD box.

Yes... they're crazy. Bordering on insane.

The benefits of smaller file sizes are nice... but the cost of losing video acceleration isn't worth it IMO. Hard drives are cheap and easy to come by. The changes to video quality, while apparent in some cases, are only really "meh". It'd be a good idea if it didn't force EVERYBODY onto CPU-based (software) decoding. Meanwhile the entire industry is trying to move away from that idea with APUs, SoC, etc...

I tried to carry the banner on the Doki forums but people just didn't get it. As long as it played okay on their 720p laptops, they didn't understand the problem.

Some of them are fairly pigheaded about it *cough* Commie *cough*, but others such as Doki actually bothered to ask what their supporters thought. The thing to keep in mind is that no one is forcing anything on you, you have the option of simply not downloading their releases. Most shows are oversubbed anyway (done by multiple groups) or can be watched shortly after release on streaming sites like ANN and CR. None the less the stubbornness of a few encoders has made this issue way more overblown than it needs to be, hint those are the ones saying things like "DURRR JUST USE TEH NEW CODEC PACK", just try and keep in mind they are the exception and not the rule thus far. It's going to be a rough transition no matter what, but throwing accusations back and forth isn't going to benefit anyone.

That is exactly why I was searching around about the hardware support in the issue, if it could even be done. If it was purely a codec support issue then it wouldnt really be a big deal as in time it would be solved, much like XBMC using DXVA on Windows. But considering its the hardware lacking it becomes a much larger problem. Not just because it would take a little time for chip makers to add the features, but they would have to see a real benefit in even taking their time to do so before they even thought about implementing it. And as jwcalla said, they wont bother until displays are up to the challenge. And I dont see that happening anytime soon, not until broadcasters start moving to 10-bit.

A plus to all of this is that it is already in ffmpeg and will be in the next XBMC, so you WILL be able to view hi10p videos. Just make sure your next XBMC machine has a CPU capable of doing so... One thing this has taught me is my next box will most likely be a pretty decent CPU, if anything just to be a fallback when GPU acceleration fails.

jwcalla Wrote:It's already supported in ffmpeg. Unless they intend on going through the trouble of pulling the changes out, it'll be in XBMC 11.0.

It doesn't work with video acceleration however, so low-end boxes and HTPCs are screwed.

Life... she is full of compromises.

Cool, I should be fine then b/c my tv ring is running an i7 920

Personally, I'm waiting for the new super hidef 16-encoding that promises to reduce the size of a full length 1080p bluray movie so it will fit on a CD.

This does bring about on the system requirements on playback performace using software decoding though.

Currently, I have an old(ish) Intel E7400, so chances are abit high that it is time to upgrade to (at least) a Intel Core i3.

davilla Wrote:Personally, I'm waiting for the new super hidef 16-encoding that promises to reduce the size of a full length 1080p bluray movie so it will fit on a CD.

What are you talking about, where can I find more information?

As I watch a lot of anime series and some movies all using XBMC it would be really great if hi10p would be supported very soon.
It's a bit annoying to use MPC to play those.
I don't think it will take so long time until other groups are using this as well.

And if XBMC 11.0 will add support, when will it be released?