[joethefox]

I have a small feeling Jezz_X might have tried that and discarded it for a reason

he keeps it for Frodo? Bubka method?
I was thinking that with the icons perhaps you gain space and there would be no more need to scroll items...

[topfs2]

he keeps it for Frodo? Bubka method?
I was thinking that with the icons perhaps you gain space and there would be no more need to scroll items...

Not sure if we are talking about the same thing? I'm guessing with the icons you'd need to scroll more. Or you mean skip the text entirely as the PS3 does? http://tirminyl.net/blog/wp-content/uplo...11/xmb.jpg Well personally I like the text

[joethefox]

ok now I'm hooked I was talking about to cut right side label as the ps3 does, to avoid scrolling.

[Abe Froman]

.

[IsleOfMan]

I discovered the new home screen when I installed XBMC on an ATV2 from NitoTV. I initially wasn't thrilled with it since the main reason I bought the ATV2 was to have XBMC on other screens around the house with the same interface as in my Theater. After using the ATV2 in the bedroom for a few days I got comfortable with the new interface and now actually prefer it, especially the add-on shortcuts. I've since upgraded the two PCs in the hosue with nightlies and when I use the old Vertical layout at my friend's house, it feels just plain old.

[KidKiwi]

Yeah...I've been using "Night" for longer than I can remember and it also has a horizontal menu. Coming from the vertical of PM3 was like a breath of fresh air. Wouldn't think of going back!

[garbear]

IMHO the mouse performance is critically degraded on the home screen. Getting to the Weather involves moving the pointer left, shaking a little, shaking a little more, frantically pulling right to catch the button sliding away from you, overshoot it and finally you get that sucker.

Icons, as mentioned above, could fix this. Ultimately, for clarity and accessibility, all home menu items must be on the screen, accessible and relatively inert. Following this paradigm can be the winning solution.

Basically, everything else is perfect.

[topfs2]

IMHO the mouse performance is critically degraded on the home screen. Getting to the Weather involves moving the pointer left, shaking a little, shaking a little more, frantically pulling right to catch the button sliding away from you, overshoot it and finally you get that sucker.

Not sure if possible but an arrow button on each end which does the scrolling (and have mouse not be able to scroll) might be good for mouse.

It should be stated though that the design of xbmc is not geared towards mouse use, we are no desktop application. xbmc is designed against remote, keyboard, joystick and too some extent touch.

[a11599]

The scroller on the mouse works with the horizontal menu, too. So I just move the pointer to the middle of the menu, scroll until the item appears then move the pointer over it and click. So not a huge deal for me.

I know XBMC is geared towards remote/touch, but I personally use a wireless mouse too and the family has not a single complaint against it. IMHO it's a much better/refined human interface than a traditional remote.

[djmcnz]

Just weighing in a voice of support for the OP.

Fundamental user experience changes, however beneficial they're deemed by a small group of people, should be optional. And opting for consistency shouldn't force you out of the upgrade cycle.

I sympathise with the views of the developers included in this thread but they are adopting the typical (fair and expected) developer/owner perspective of "we can't really be wrong". In a commercial software house this is a fatal mistake. No successful developer would ever do this because it potentially alienates many of the existing user base.

A fair strategy would be to have at least two releases with both skins, calling the new skin something different (because it is different) and letting users "opt-in" to the new skin. Then survey use, provide migration forewarning and in the next release again provide both skins, perhaps at this time swapping the default for new installs but ensuring that user-selected skin from previous release is preserved.

i.e.
Dharma = Confluence (default)
Eden = Confluence (default) + Horizontal Whatever (provided but not default)
Future = Horizontal Whatever (default) + Confluence (default if previously used)

I accept this means maintaining two defaults but this must be an assumed overhead when releasing new software anyway. If user satisfaction is the intended goal, and it appears as if it is, then it's unreasonable to subject such disruption on them.

People too often say "change is good" - the accurate saying is "change can be good". The OP, speaking to wide usability has raised valid points that have not been addressed by responses to the post.

As an example, I don't have a single active add-on that I use in XBMC... why would I want them promoted to the home screen? (Rhetorical but you get the point).

I think both skins are awesome but I agree with the sentiments of the OP, forcing abrupt and disruptive change is not good development practice.

[topfs2]

I sympathise with the views of the developers included in this thread but they are adopting the typical (fair and expected) developer/owner perspective of "we can't really be wrong". In a commercial software house this is a fatal mistake. No successful developer would ever do this because it potentially alienates many of the existing user base.

In commercial software the developers get paid, we do it for fun. If you wish to step up and actively maintain the old confluence, go do that and then we'll talk, otherwise your point is moot.

[Jezz_X]

Lol I can't believe this post is still going when the changes were made months ago and no one said a word

[djmcnz]

In commercial software the developers get paid, we do it for fun. If you wish to step up and actively maintain the old confluence, go do that and then we'll talk, otherwise your point is moot.

I apologise if I came across as overly critical. However the point I was making isn't moot and has nothing to do with being paid.

I drew the comparison to illustrate that if you're in a competitive environment you need to be empathetic to your user base or you risk alienating them. This drives a best practice mentality which can be equally applied to open source.

The point I and the OP have made is that there is a lot of room here for you guys to introduce a lower impact method of transitioning from once user experience to a totally different one. This point has not been addressed in this thread (except for, 'use the dead-end unsupported version').

If the change is minor then the effort is not required but in this case it's fundamental to the user experience.

At a time when XBMC is just starting to extend its user base beyond the techies (since Dharma in my opinion) this is a move that has the potential to dampen that growth.

Don't underestimate how little tolerance the "Joe Blogs" user has for fundamental user experience changes.

I think there's still an opportunity, since Confluence (original) has been mostly ported to Eden, for the devs to make it fully functional and include it in the final release of Eden. At least this provides a two-release transition period which would be more acceptable.

However you proceed, I recommend a strategy for helping users prepare for and migrate. To claim that the new version is a "superior experience" is a dangerously subjective black hole (because it prevents you from considering the alternative view, that it could be inferior for some).

Again, and for the avoidance of doubt - I'm being critical of the approach, not the quality or the devs which I salute every time I turn on XBMC. And only because I feel that the approach is detrimental to the success of XBMC in its new market - the average home.

And it's a little unfair to suggest that I can only have a valid opinion if I'm prepared to maintain the software or that it's somehow moot since I don't. But that is moot.

Peace.

[djmcnz]

Lol I can't believe this post is still going when the changes were made months ago and no one said a word

Actually, it's because I was on Dharma and just updated to a beta and was shocked to see the change.

Sorry if it was considered a dead thread but I read the entire thing that the OP's question was never fully answered.

[Jezz_X]

I don't know a think I answered why it changed pretty well back on page one and any way to reduce your impact as you say you can download the version with the old home screen in the addons manager.