[canadave]

Apologies if this has been brought up before, or if I just don't know any better. But I'm just curious how come XBMC buries the "Add Sources" function in a non-obvious place.

Currently, to add sources, I have to go to Videos, then hopefully I'm in the proper directory level, and hopefully I see it amidst the other options under Videos. It's also confusing because Videos seems to be a "place to go where you can play videos" rather than "a place to go where you can change settings." The first time I ran XBMC, it took me a while to get there because I was looking under the Settings area and I never thought to even look under "Videos" because I thought it was just a place where you play videos, not change settings.

Sources (for music and video) are integral, fundamental parts of XBMC. Would it not make more sense (particularly for novice users) to put an "Add/Edit Sources" function in the System/Settings section? I think just about everyone, no matter what their experience level, knows to head to the System area at the beginning just on principle. Why not give them the opportunity to set up XBMC's sources in that obvious place?

[jmarshall]

Agreed, and it's something we want to do. I'm more than happy to provide pointers if you want to do it.

[Martijn]

In some skins there are buttons (somewhat hidden) that directly go to the files menu.
So i think it would be possible for the skinners to create a button in an obvious place that directly calls the "add source" dialog

[canadave]

In some skins there are buttons (somewhat hidden) that directly go to the files menu.
So i think it would be possible for the skinners to create a button in an obvious place that directly calls the "add source" dialog

That's true, and a good idea, but I see that as more of a "workaround" than a real solution. I think it would be better if users could play with their source settings directly in....well....the settings section

Agreed, and it's something we want to do. I'm more than happy to provide pointers if you want to do it.

Glad to hear it's in the plan! Unfortunately I am not a programmer in the slightest, otherwise I would be jumping at the chance to volunteer to help out That being said, if you think it's something a non-programmer might have a chance of doing, then please consider my poor abilities at your disposal!

Just knowing it's something that is a planned thing is good enough for me. When I began playing with XBMC, I remember thinking, "this is one of the few things of XBMC that doesn't make any sense"

[isamu.dragon]

here is the code for allowing a skin to Automatically go to Files within the Video Menu

<onclick>ActivateWindow(Videos,Files,return)</onclick>

[spiff]

for the record, I think moving this to settings instead of having it where, you know, you want to use it borderlines (on the wrong side of) stupid.

[topfs2]

for the record, I think moving this to settings instead of having it where, you know, you want to use it borderlines (on the wrong side of) stupid.

+1

I find the navigational very clear.
You go into videos, because you want videos. You realize you have no videos, you add source, then you have videos. (TBH We should probably autosource a bit of folders on beforehand but thats outside the discussion).

The way you suggest is extremely unclear IMO
You go into videos, because you want videos. You realize you have no videos. After this its not clear that you should go back to settings to add them.
Only reason people look there is because all other apps out in existance (read windows apps) bury EVERYTHING in settings

For fundamental use of xbmc you should never need to go to settings IMO.

Having them in both however might be valid, but it makes _no_ sense IMO to move it from the explicit locations and into settings.

I however do think we should rename "files" node to "sources" then it might become a bit clearer its more managerial location.

[canadave]

Well, I think this is going to be one of those things where people have differing opinions, I guess. To me, since the folders where sources are specified is a setting (you "set" it to whatever you want), then it makes sense to have it in Settings. Just about every program I've ever used has had things like this put in Settings. It even LOOKS like a setting dialog box. Because that's what it is.

Look at it this way--if this WAS in Settings to begin with, would you seriously think "hey, this is way out of place, what's this doing HERE?" It's got a field where you set the type of content you want for your videos; it's got a dialog where you set the folders you want; then it has settings for the scraper. Is that really all so out of place in Settings? A place where, spiff, you know, you SET things? (by the way, I'm sure you can come up with more to your counterargument than "it's borderline stupid").

Having them in both however might be valid...

As long as changes to the settings in one location would be reflected if you opened up the setting dialog in the other location, this would be completely fine by me.

Where's that forum Poll option when you need it....

[isamu.dragon]

A stupid suggestion I have is this,

When you install XBMC, the install file looks at the Default location for userdata ("&APPDATA%\XBMC" for windows), if sources.xml is present then it displays the sources in a dialog menu, showing where the sources are and what they are assigned to.

If not present, then the menu comes up and you can set your sources and say what they are (TV Shows, Movies, ect.).

After the install, if there wasn't a sources.xml it, before the install, will ask you, "Do You Wish to Scan New Sources?"

[topfs2]

Well, I think this is going to be one of those things where people have differing opinions, I guess. To me, since the folders where sources are specified is a setting (you "set" it to whatever you want), then it makes sense to have it in Settings. Just about every program I've ever used has had things like this put in Settings. It even LOOKS like a setting dialog box. Because that's what it is.

IMO, just because many other applications do it doesn't make it the better way. But I can agree that since there is a cultural paradigm it might be valid to support it.

And I agree that its a setting in a sense, what I don't agree with is to bundle away settings in a seperate windows. I much prefer having settings where they are used. I'll give an example, repeat of current song or shuffle of playlist would be awful to have in settings window, but it is a setting. I consider sources the same, I think its more obvious to have it close to the explicit location its used.

It makes sense to have a settings window when your dealing with abstract or stuff which does not have one explicit location.

Look at it this way--if this WAS in Settings to begin with, would you seriously think "hey, this is way out of place, what's this doing HERE?" It's got a field where you set the type of content you want for your videos; it's got a dialog where you set the folders you want; then it has settings for the scraper. Is that really all so out of place in Settings? A place where, spiff, you know, you SET things? (by the way, I'm sure you can come up with more to your counterargument than "it's borderline stupid").

Its not about if its way out of place, its which is the better practice. Just because its OK in settings does not mean its the best location.
(hehe, and borderline on stupid is perhaps harsh but I think I give better points and counterargument somewhat in the rest of this response )

As long as changes to the settings in one location would be reflected if you opened up the setting dialog in the other location, this would be completely fine by me.

Hehe, well yeah otherwise it would be real bad

Where's that forum Poll option when you need it....

Sadly its one of those problems where a forum poll would be real useless the forum users are extreme minority of the users and would give not reflect the real target audience.

[canadave]

IMO, just because many other applications do it doesn't make it the better way. But I can agree that since there is a cultural paradigm it might be valid to support it.

And I agree that its a setting in a sense, what I don't agree with is to bundle away settings in a seperate windows. I much prefer having settings where they are used. I'll give an example, repeat of current song or shuffle of playlist would be awful to have in settings window, but it is a setting. I consider sources the same, I think its more obvious to have it close to the explicit location its used.

Thanks for your responses and arguments, which I'll gladly agree are thoughtful and interesting. I genuinely find it fascinating that some people, such as yourself, would prefer to have something like sources settings, which are a fundamental part of XBMC, in a place other than the main settings window. I do fully understand your point--that you want to see that settings window where the *things that it controls* are first encountered and used--but that seems completely counterintuitive to me. As you say, perhaps there is some kind of cultural paradigm at work there!

I did want to address your example of shuffle/repeat song settings: The thing about that, though, is that that is an *individual* setting. Every song will be different; some you will want to repeat, but some you won't; sometimes you'll want to shuffle songs, sometimes you won't. Because it's *changeable*, I agree with you that it makes much more sense to have that setting available to you at the moment you're deciding to play something, and that it would be totally out of place in a Settings dialog box.

However, most settings in music playback programs that are *global* (i.e., which likely won't change from time to time depending on your mood), such as where your music is located (look at iTunes!), are indeed almost always located in some sort of "Settings" or "Preferences" window.

And to continue your analogy, that's my point. If video/music source settings were *temporary*--if it made sense to change them at the time of playback depending on what your preference was at that moment--then I would completely, 100% agree with you that it would make more sense to set up sources at the point of playback, or at least in that area (as it is now).

But because XBMC library sources are relatively *permanent* settings--you generally set them once initially, and then that's it, unless you change drives or something--then it makes much more sense to me to have them in the settings window along with the other relatively permanent settings.

Anyway, thank you very much for elucidating your opinions. I find "usability" issues very interesting in general

One question, btw--I am a little confused, when you say a poll would be useless because forum users "are not the real target audience". Who, then, is that audience? Aren't forum users (such as myself) the people who use XBMC for the most part?

[canadave]

By the way--interestingly, just after posting my above response, I was looking through the File Manager (in System) for the first time, on something completely unrelated. And I noticed that on opening it, it has an "Add Sources" button to set that setting So clearly someone at some point in the past thought it would be beneficial to get the source settings at least *close* to the System settings! lol

[TugboatBill]

Why not put it in both places?

[canadave]

Absolutely!

[Martijn]

However, most settings in music playback programs that are *global* (i.e., which likely won't change from time to time depending on your mood), such as where your music is located (look at iTunes!), are indeed almost always located in some sort of "Settings" or "Preferences" window.

And to continue your analogy, that's my point. If video/music source settings were *temporary*--if it made sense to change them at the time of playback depending on what your preference was at that moment--then I would completely, 100% agree with you that it would make more sense to set up sources at the point of playback, or at least in that area (as it is now).

But because XBMC library sources are relatively *permanent* settings--you generally set them once initially, and then that's it, unless you change drives or something--then it makes much more sense to me to have them in the settings window along with the other relatively permanent settings.

I think one of the places where it could be at its place is the "setting-> music-> libray" & "settings -> video-> library" setting. This is also the place where you clean/export/import the library. Biut like i sayd it's just one of the places.

One question, btw--I am a little confused, when you say a poll would be useless because forum users "are not the real target audience". Who, then, is that audience? Aren't forum users (such as myself) the people who use XBMC for the most part?

He means that the forum users are just a small part of the ones who use XBMC. Second: only a small portion of the user who use this forum would find it's way to the appropiate poll. So a poll would be not representitive to what the users want.
Another point is what the skinner puts where. There are some fixed points however he can almost design everything as he sees fit.