2011-10-24, 06:55
@ZombieRobot -- while you correctly pointed out the obvious "we have a mix of different user types" you still completely missed the point I was making.
2011-10-24, 07:39
Oh i understand your point, you cant read the text but your problem seems like it may be limited to you and a few others.
If you ask 100,000 people and I'd bet only 20 would even have your problem reading the text... and probably only 1 would complain about it.
the thing is im my opinion we have to find a happy medium between looks and practicality screen real estate is the problem users want every bell and whistle in every view by the time we add everything we have a cluttered mess we just dont have the space for big plots (thats why i guess we have video info screens)but you are right all other fonts could be bigger the problem is making it look good while doing it, some fonts imo just look out of place when they are larger so i will reduce the size to make it look correct without making it unreadable its a bit of an art getting everything fitting.
If you ask 100,000 people and I'd bet only 20 would even have your problem reading the text... and probably only 1 would complain about it.
the thing is im my opinion we have to find a happy medium between looks and practicality screen real estate is the problem users want every bell and whistle in every view by the time we add everything we have a cluttered mess we just dont have the space for big plots (thats why i guess we have video info screens)but you are right all other fonts could be bigger the problem is making it look good while doing it, some fonts imo just look out of place when they are larger so i will reduce the size to make it look correct without making it unreadable its a bit of an art getting everything fitting.
2011-10-24, 08:19
ZombieRobot Wrote:Oh i understand your point, you cant read the text but your problem seems like it may be limited to you and a few others.
Nope, not my point at all.
My 100,000 people comment was targeted specifically to the THX comment made by someone else. He used the THX viewing specs as a basis for viewing distance.
I was making a point to say that the THX viewing spec was inconsequential to the discussion - and point out, by way of how few people are even aware of the THX spec, how it was a ridiculous basis for his argument.
My point was not in any way a commentary on what is or is not appropriate text size.
ZombieRobot Wrote:the thing is im my opinion we have to find a happy medium between looks and practicality screen real estate is the problem users want every bell and whistle in every view by the time we add everything we have a cluttered mess we just dont have the space for big plots (thats why i guess we have video info screens)but you are right all other fonts could be bigger the problem is making it look good while doing it, some fonts imo just look out of place when they are larger so i will reduce the size to make it look correct without making it unreadable its a bit of an art getting everything fitting.
This I agree with. I think many skins do look cluttered - but I also realize many people like those skins too. Each skinner needs to decide what they want to do... but, as another pointed out... many skinners don't really know how their skins is being viewed (screen size, distance, etc) ... I've only seen 1 or 2 skinners ever ask in open forum in the 7 years I've used XBMC!
2011-10-24, 09:00
ZombieRobot Wrote:@Livin well this forum is full of users from total noobs to hardcore htpc/media center enthusiasts but from what I have seen we have a lot of both a big lot of users have extensive htpc setups with huge home servers and multiple xbmc setups and I know we have a huge amount of audio nuts who would be crazy if they didn't know about stuff like THX standards because so many users are seeking the ultimate setup if anyone has seen tekzilla or hd nation they have talked about it multiple times.
I agree with arc I also don't read huge plots why read the whole story about the movie I like short sneak peak of what's it about also we have trailers so why read the whole plot in other areas I think we could make some text a little larger I will start to include larger font as a option in any work I do but I understand why levin Wants larger font everyone is going to be different
Yo Zombie, if it was my decision i would remove all the plot info from the views. As said a few posts behind, why not just make a bigger plot font for the info screen. The skinner has to decide what to do, a clean look with a decent plot font: Size 20 or 22 is really sufficent, or make a plot window that
covers all the rest.
Just my 2 cents ...
2011-10-24, 09:11
Livin Wrote:Each skinner needs to decide what they want to do... but, as another pointed out... many skinners don't really know how their skins is being viewed (screen size, distance, etc) ... I've only seen 1 or 2 skinners ever ask in open forum in the 7 years I've used XBMC!
How could they know? Most people does not bother giving feedback.
And, truth be said, when they do, you need to filter it out because info like "I have 32" in my bedroom 5m away" or "I have 56" on my desk" does not really help.
2011-10-24, 09:14
butchabay Wrote:Yo Zombie, if it was my decision i would remove all the plot info from the views. As said a few posts behind, why not just make a bigger plot font for the info screen.
Yeah, you're right it is a nice idea but it would not work. I bet most of users would say "I need to do what? Press "I"? Gimme a break!" :-)
2011-10-24, 09:35
pecinko Wrote:How could they know? Most people does not bother giving feedback.
And, truth be said, when they do, you need to filter it out because info like "I have 32" in my bedroom 5m away" or "I have 56" on my desk" does not really help.
Totaly agree. Most feedback is very personal and mostly not usable.
I have a 40" HD screen and sit 3,5meters away and can read the plots just fine. At least in the cases that i read it. True that some fonts are a bit small. But a larger font in the same boxsize it ugly (yes i tried it). So that means if you want bigger plot the panel has to be redisigned.
Back on the feedback. If you count the total users on this forum against the total xbmc users it's like a drop in an ocean. So the reactions are not realle representative.
2011-10-24, 09:42
pecinko Wrote:Yeah, you're right it is a nice idea but it would not work. I bet most of users would say "I need to do what? Press "I"? Gimme a break!" :-)
I know isint it crazy i agree butch the sad thing is the video info screen is another thing that doesnt get used that much just like profiles i would love to get rid of plot outline and all the other clutter in views and save it for the info screen i love clean views/skins i think this is why i loved the old aeon skin if you wanted info it was in the info screen and looked fantastic.
2011-10-24, 10:35
Ok, another idea, what if the plot would scroll horizontally just like the rss feed?
In that case you won't have problems changing to a bigger font size for plot.
In that case you won't have problems changing to a bigger font size for plot.
2011-10-24, 13:33
Ok, let's drop the THX standards (mentioned only to see that with a flat/new gen. tv, there's no harm to stay a little closer). Probably, the biggest danger in standing that close is the TV falling over you.
Seems to me a little absurd to run away from your tv and complain about small fonts since there's no electrical fence at 3m around the tv. Keep in mind that there are also bigger tvs and projectors, so the fonts should look proper to them, too. Like ZombieRobot said, 2.5 m for a 40" TV seems decent, i doubt there are fonts that still looks small from there.
Seems to me a little absurd to run away from your tv and complain about small fonts since there's no electrical fence at 3m around the tv. Keep in mind that there are also bigger tvs and projectors, so the fonts should look proper to them, too. Like ZombieRobot said, 2.5 m for a 40" TV seems decent, i doubt there are fonts that still looks small from there.
2011-10-24, 14:12
sergiocos Wrote:Like ZombieRobot said, 2.5 m for a 40" TV seems decent, i doubt there are fonts that still looks small from there.
There's a big difference between that and THX measurements you mentioned earlier
It's a matter of personal preferences, too - I'm always sitting in the last row in cinema. I still remember unpleasant experience it was for me to watch LOTR 1 as I was sitting somewhere in the middle row.I agree with your point, though. Most of the skins are more or less readable from distance posted above. Distance is not the only factor that's in play - a lot depends on a used font and the things get very complicated here as choices are limited.
2011-10-24, 14:30
pecinko Wrote:Distance is not the only factor that's in play - a lot depends on a used font and the things get very complicated here as choices are limited.So why not discuss it in every skin's thread, instead of a statement like
Quote:...but nearly every skin has too small fonts
2011-10-24, 15:20
sergiocos Wrote:So why not discuss it in every skin's thread, instead of a statement like
Because he would like to see his problem being solved without him getting involved?
2011-10-29, 10:30
Well I agree - you can change the size of fonts - but that's probably nothing that all people are able to do.
I changed my favorite skins to use a plot overlay - in big font all plot readable, no damn scrolling - I wonder why most of the skinners don't use that idea ... everybody is trying to put all info on one single screen.
Whatsoever ... I'm sitting in front of a 50" TV - 2,5m away, having good eyes - still finding those fonts to small ... but I guess the size and distance discussion is useless anyways - everyone has a different feeling about it.
Cheers,
h3ll
I changed my favorite skins to use a plot overlay - in big font all plot readable, no damn scrolling - I wonder why most of the skinners don't use that idea ... everybody is trying to put all info on one single screen.
Whatsoever ... I'm sitting in front of a 50" TV - 2,5m away, having good eyes - still finding those fonts to small ... but I guess the size and distance discussion is useless anyways - everyone has a different feeling about it.
Cheers,
h3ll
