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XBMC's Future Direction
#46
aptalca Wrote:I personally don't care much for HD Audio, because I simply couldn't tell the difference between DTS 5.1 and DTS-HD in a home setting. The jump from stereo (2.0) to 5.1 was a big one when DVDs came out. Because it gave you surround sound. For video, the jump from NTSC/PAL to DVD was easily noticeable by the average consumer, and so was the jump from DVD to HD. And as the TVs got larger, resolution differences became more and more noticeable.

But the jump from DTS to DTS-HD is more subtle and most average consumer cannot tell the difference (me included) in a home setting. It reminds me of the difference between CDs and records. My audiophile friends always tell me that records sound much much better than CDs and that CD quality is crap, but I honestly can't tell the difference "in a home setting". And in a home setting, I never crank it up high enough to notice it, otherwise my neighbors get really mad at me.

I think if I were to compare DTS and DTS-HD in a movie theater, I probably could tell the difference, but not in a home setting and neither would the average consumer.

On the other hand, doesn't xbmc already handle True HD by decoding it to LPCM 7.1 and sending it through hdmi? I realize for DTS-HD MA, the core DTS 5.1 track is bitstreamed, so there is no support for DTS-HD MA yet, but you still get multi channel audio although not lossless.

I'm with you on records vs. CD's. Records sound like crap to me - I don't want crackles and pops; I want clear audio.

When it comes to HT applications, I'm not an audiophile snob - but I can hear the difference in HD audio and standard def audio. The caveat is that you will need a semi-decent audio set-up, and it needs to be properly calibrated to hear the difference.

My guess is that people that say they can't hear a difference are probably either listening on a sub-par system ("meh I can't hear any difference on my computer speakers with my torrent super-compressed mkv file anyway") or they might not be listening at reference levels. Reference levels are fairly loud, but many of us who have home theater rooms do watch movies loud.

Regardless of what some 'scientific' studies say (show me any study telling you A, and I'll find you a study telling B), I do my testing with non HT-saavy people (i.e. my girlfriend, guests, etc). I don't tell them which clip is which and ask them which clip they prefer. If the non-saavy people can't tell, then I consider if its psych or placebo on my part. Trust me, play the same movie on DVD and the same on BRD, and people will be able to tell the audio difference (video differences aside).

I don't know about you, but I trust my own perceptions, experiences, and testing over what someone else tells me to think. Just because a study claims something does not make it true (or untrue).
#47
I rip all of my Blu-rays and store them on a server. Without the HD audio. Don't need it, hardly makes a difference in AQ, and it takes up more space than it needs to. DD or DTS core is good enough for me.
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#48
MidnightWatcher Wrote:..... DD or DTS core is good enough for me.

I second that....
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#49
deh2k7 Wrote:My guess is that people that say they can't hear a difference are probably either listening on a sub-par system ("meh I can't hear any difference on my computer speakers with my torrent super-compressed mkv file anyway") or they might not be listening at reference levels. Reference levels are fairly loud, but many of us who have home theater rooms do watch movies loud.
Hmmm... no? I did double blind testing with Ultimate Ears UE-10, reference in-ear monitors. I did the same with Dynaudio speakers driven by a top of the line Onkyo amp with plenty of power to drive them the reference levels and more.
Quote:Regardless of what some 'scientific' studies say (show me any study telling you A, and I'll find you a study telling B), I do my testing with non HT-saavy people (i.e. my girlfriend, guests, etc). I don't tell them which clip is which and ask them which clip they prefer. If the non-saavy people can't tell, then I consider if its psych or placebo on my part. Trust me, play the same movie on DVD and the same on BRD, and people will be able to tell the audio difference (video differences aside).
Please do that. The fact you say people perceive a difference between BD and DVD has a lot more to do with mastering than it has with codec quality and transparency.
Quote:I don't know about you, but I trust my own perceptions, experiences, and testing over what someone else tells me to think. Just because a study claims something does not make it true (or untrue).
I'm sorry to sound offensive, but this is such an ignorant statement. If a scientific study, conducted under controlled and replicable conditions gives you a result, saying "I don't believe it" doesn't make you look wiser. Quite the contrary.

Whenever perception is involved people tend to get difensive for no logical reason. You trust the whole of your life to achievements we got through rigorous testing and the application of the scientific method. Yet when it comes to perception "you know better". To each his own, I guess. Rolleyes
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first (usually it's enough to follow instructions in the second post).
#50
I call topic drift. Rolleyes
#51
Eldesi Wrote:I call topic drift. Rolleyes

Sounds like it (ba dum tiss!)

Flirc now has a forum: forum.flirc.tv
#52
Eldesi Wrote:I call topic drift. Rolleyes
You are right, sorry. Confused
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first (usually it's enough to follow instructions in the second post).
#53
I'm waiting for the audioengine in the hopes it would fix the multichannel flac audio problem. I have a growing collection of 5.1 music I can't enjoy in XBMC and it's bumming me out. Sad
#54
I would like to get rid of my SAT receiver and have Live TV integrated in XBMC. Something like Enigma 2 functions for XBMC. That would be a killer feature.
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#55
ashlar Wrote:Hmmm... no? I did double blind testing with Ultimate Ears UE-10, reference in-ear monitors. I did the same with Dynaudio speakers driven by a top of the line Onkyo amp with plenty of power to drive them the reference levels and more.Please do that. The fact you say people perceive a difference between BD and DVD has a lot more to do with mastering than it has with codec quality and transparency.I'm sorry to sound offensive, but this is such an ignorant statement. If a scientific study, conducted under controlled and replicable conditions gives you a result, saying "I don't believe it" doesn't make you look wiser. Quite the contrary.

Whenever perception is involved people tend to get difensive for no logical reason. You trust the whole of your life to achievements we got through rigorous testing and the application of the scientific method. Yet when it comes to perception "you know better". To each his own, I guess. Rolleyes

Sorry Ashlar - I didn't come on here to argue who's opinion matters the most. You have yours, and I have mine - let's simply agree to disagree. I like my HD audio, and you feel that SD is good enough. I can respect that.

I simply posted in this topic, as an ON-TOPIC POST, that I would like to see the audio engine project better supported with more help given to Gnif, which includes support for HD audio, and as others posted, support for things like multichannel FLAC. Support for video industry standards is important (HD audio is here to stay, and has been for a number of years), even if some users choose to not utilize HD Audio and go for standard audio, regardless of the reason for doing so.

While I cannot contribute in the coding aspects, I have volunteered my time to help with the testing of AE due to having a huge library of HD and ST videos. When Gnif is able to continue on the project, or if others can help him, I look forward to helping to advance the AE branch forward, with all of the benefits that it brings to the XBMC project.
#56
deh2k7 Wrote:I would like to see the audio engine project better supported with more help given to Gnif, which includes support for HD audio, and as others posted, support for things like multichannel FLAC.
I donated money to gnif for AudioEngine, so I agree. Multichannel FLAC already works, what's missing? I did some FLAC conversions of HD Audio and they work with no problem. Am I missing something?

Edit: read the above post... did it get broken somewhere in the past? I remember it worked. I'm gonna check my multichannel FLACs.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first (usually it's enough to follow instructions in the second post).
#57
Where do u find/how do u make a multi channel flax I have some unplugged stuff that would be nice in multi channel do u need a specific sourse?
#58
Figure out what to do with this guy:
Image

I mean the contest ended June 17 and then... I haven't heard or seen a single thing since.
The logo at the top of the forums is still the old one from Xbox days.
Code:
GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON `xbmc_%`.* TO 'xbmc'@'%';
IF you have a mysql problem, find one of the 4 dozen threads already open.
#59
Multichannel flac - I created mine using foobar2000/DVDAExplorer/etc. Mostly they're DVDA rips.

The problem I see (Eden Live) is that the rear effect channels play in the front L/R channels, at least that's what it sounds like.
#60
HD audio is just something they had to put into Bluray specs to help it stand out on paper as being 'better' or make worth the upgrade.

Nobody can hear the difference between DTS 1500kbps and lossless, on any system.
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