XBMC on Raspberry Pi - Wonder if this will work out? (Historical Discussion Thread)

(2012-04-27 11:41)Oddsodz Wrote:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17857189

Watch the news video to the end ;-)

oh god that was the worst interview ever! but nice to see xbmc on there! looks a little laggy though!

(2012-04-27 09:29)gimli Wrote:  

(2012-04-27 01:41)slicemaster Wrote:  I hate to say it but I fear for the Raspberry Pi's future as a comprehensive media player solution. Don't get me wrong, the board has all the hardware to do it all, but the support that we as XBMC users would need for a good fluid experience in HD on this device is unlikely to happen based on what I've been reading. In truth, the real guts of this chip is the VideoCore IV GPU, not the ARM processor when it comes to media applications. The simple reason for this reasoning is that the 700Mhz ARM portion of the SoC can at MOST software decode MPEG2 and other popular codecs, and this I think will be a real deal breaker for many who were hoping to do much much more with this platform. Sure it can hardware decode H.264 at 1080P, but that's about all it can do on the hardware decoding front. Although the BroadCom SoC has the ability do hardware decode everything our community would want, the Raspberry Pi foundation has opted not to license the rest of the codecs supported by the SoC to save a few bucks per unit. From the types of posts i've been reading over there on their forum and blog, it looks as though we're going to be left hanging out in the wind because our need for codec support does not fall inline with the foundations "Core Goals". Some have advocated an end-user CODEC support upgrade package for an additional fee, but based on the types of responses from the folks running the show over there, it doesn't look promising.

That said, I do think the Raspberry Pi is a neat peace of hardware, and I have actually purchased one with hopes of running XBMC on it when a pre-packaged distribution becomes available from either OpenELEC or RasBMC (one of the two should be available by the time i get my Pi as the Pis are back ordered for months), however i do have my concerns over the ability for the relativity weak ARM processor to handle software decoding my SD MPEG2 video streams and handling the UI at the same time with out creating a less than ideal user experience.

In either case, regardless of the ultimate outcome I am definitely looking forward to seeing what this thing can actually do with out the aid of hardware accelerated video decoding.

Ask the PI Foundation to make the additional codec pack available for purchase. When the demand is getting high enough they might work on it.

Tecnical words :

What XBMC can do at the moment :

Video decoing is only done in hardware and we support :

MPEG-4 Part 2 ( Xvid )
MPEG-4 Part 10 ( h264/AVC)
VP8 ( Partial in hardware )

Audio decoding :

All is done in software, expect AC3/DTS passthrough.

With the additional codec pack XBMC could use the hardware decoding to do :

Mpeg2, VC1, DTS, AC3

DTS-HD and TrueHD are not supported by the hardware and the software decoding is to slow.


Personal words :

Everyone have to consider if the PI fit for their needs. You can't say that is no comprehensive media player solution. If the support fit your needs, it is. If not, you have to use another device. That is a personal decision, so you can't speek in general for the whole XBMC community.

cheers

gimli

A fare analysis, and i do agree with your statements regarding personal needs. However the very definition of comprehensive includes the idea of all encompassing, just like XBMC video support is more or less all encompassing (whether in software or hardware). That said, I still believe my statements hold true, the platform simply is not powerful enough to offer the comprehensive media experience that a lot of XBMC users are used to on the desktop without better hardware decoding codec support (it just doesn't have the power to software decode much). In either case, I definitely see where you're coming from though. I myself keep all my media in native format (As I suspect many XBMC users do), meaning my entire collection is composed of DVD-ISOs and BD-ISOs...because of the codec support they have decided to offer (in spite of the fact that the chip offers so much more), it would seem as though users like me are going to be left hanging, especially in the HD relm (hopefully the little arm will beable to handle the 480p content of the DVDs).

cheers,

(2012-04-27 19:03)slicemaster Wrote:  A fare analysis, and i do agree with your statements regarding personal needs. However the very definition of comprehensive includes the idea of all encompassing, just like XBMC video support is more or less all encompassing (whether in software or hardware). That said, I still believe my statements hold true, the platform simply is not powerful enough to offer the comprehensive media experience that a lot of XBMC users are used to on the desktop without better hardware decoding codec support (it just doesn't have the power to software decode much). In either case, I definitely see where you're coming from though. I myself keep all my media in native format (As I suspect many XBMC users do), meaning my entire collection is composed of DVD-ISOs and BD-ISOs...because of the codec support they have decided to offer (in spite of the fact that the chip offers so much more), it would seem as though users like me are going to be left hanging, especially in the HD relm (hopefully the little arm will beable to handle the 480p content of the DVDs).

cheers,

I see it clear that no embeded device will fit your needs. All of them have in one or the other way limitations. Your best choice is an intel i7 which can do all for you. So please let's stay on topic and talk about the xbmc PI port and not your personal frustration that the PI doesn't fit your needs.

thx

gimli

(2012-04-27 23:19)gimli Wrote:  I see it clear that no embeded device will fit your needs. All of them have in one or the other way limitations. Your best choice is an intel i7 which can do all for you. So please let's stay on topic and talk about the xbmc PI port and not your personal frustration that the PI doesn't fit your needs.

thx

gimli

I don't see how you come to those conclusions that no embedded device will fit my needs, that's simply not true...If the Pi shipped with all the CODEC support that the BroadCom SoC has the ability to decode, there wouldn't be any problem meeting my needs (Once the changes in XBMC to take advantage of the Hardware decoding is in place of course). But in either case, I, like you, feel there is nothing more to be gained by further discussion on the subject. However, My comments were not off topic. The thread is entitled "Raspberry Pi [HTPC] - Wonder if this will work out for XBMC??", and my comments and analysis were discussing exactly that...In summery: Yes, XBMC will run on the Pi and you can even play a limited selection of HD content on it thanks to its powerful video core and the two CODECs they licensed, but because of the compromises the Raspberry Pi foundation made, there are limitations as to what type of video content will be able to be played back on the device.

Cheers,

P.S. I'm not out to step on anybodies toes here, I hope my comments were not misconstrued as such. I'm not looking for a fight and I certainly don't hold any real ill will towards anyone here in the XBMC community or over at Raspberry Pi. I was just addressing some of the issues we are going to face (Myself included, as I am a Raspberry Pi owner and I will just have to be contented with the devices limited abilities for now, maybe down the road the rPi folks will get some kind of codec licensing deal for those who want it, in which case I will be more than happy to pay for the increased feature set).

while im not surprised, i am a little disappointed in the news sd playback is poor:-(

since all of the hype started around the project in feb, nobody online would comment on sd performance on the pi, all one could find stated emphatically was, ".. its acceptable.."

i took a gamble on the $55 AU to preorder one on the off chance this device would do the required job of a replacement media playback device for my crt display device and allow me to use xbmc, output to composite and be able to playback from sd and hd sources.

since 90% of my hd collection is encoded as 720p, will the pi handle scaling?

finally, the openelec pi version i think have pvr options, since pi performance on mpg2 is software only and quiet poor, does this mean pvr performance also lags considerably?

regards,
Dam0

So the thing can't even do SD MPEG2? Sad...

I'm glad I didn't just get it to run XBMC...

(2012-04-28 02:32)slicemaster Wrote:  So the thing can't even do SD MPEG2? Sad...

I'm glad I didn't just get it to run XBMC...

EDIT:

(2012-04-28 03:13)Ned Scott Wrote:  

(2012-04-28 02:32)slicemaster Wrote:  So the thing can't even do SD MPEG2? Sad...

I'm glad I didn't just get it to run XBMC...

stop. posting.

Not really fair! His posts are well documented and he gives supporting crititism.

"Feedback has to be specific to trigger change of behaviour".

(2012-04-28 03:13)Ned Scott Wrote:  

(2012-04-28 02:32)slicemaster Wrote:  So the thing can't even do SD MPEG2? Sad...

I'm glad I didn't just get it to run XBMC...

stop. posting.

Y not allow users to post their experience to educate folks who may be interested in this hardware.... especially if their main purpose for use is XBMC?

U should explain urself

(2012-04-28 00:57)slicemaster Wrote:  

(2012-04-27 23:19)gimli Wrote:  I see it clear that no embeded device will fit your needs. All of them have in one or the other way limitations. Your best choice is an intel i7 which can do all for you. So please let's stay on topic and talk about the xbmc PI port and not your personal frustration that the PI doesn't fit your needs.

thx

gimli

I don't see how you come to those conclusions that no embedded device will fit my needs, that's simply not true...If the Pi shipped with all the CODEC support that the BroadCom SoC has the ability to decode, there wouldn't be any problem meeting my needs (Once the changes in XBMC to take advantage of the Hardware decoding is in place of course). But in either case, I, like you, feel there is nothing more to be gained by further discussion on the subject. However, My comments were not off topic. The thread is entitled "Raspberry Pi [HTPC] - Wonder if this will work out for XBMC??", and my comments and analysis were discussing exactly that...In summery: Yes, XBMC will run on the Pi and you can even play a limited selection of HD content on it thanks to its powerful video core and the two CODECs they licensed, but because of the compromises the Raspberry Pi foundation made, there are limitations as to what type of video content will be able to be played back on the device.

Cheers,

P.S. I'm not out to step on anybodies toes here, I hope my comments were not misconstrued as such. I'm not looking for a fight and I certainly don't hold any real ill will towards anyone here in the XBMC community or over at Raspberry Pi. I was just addressing some of the issues we are going to face (Myself included, as I am a Raspberry Pi owner and I will just have to be contented with the devices limited abilities for now, maybe down the road the rPi folks will get some kind of codec licensing deal for those who want it, in which case I will be more than happy to pay for the increased feature set).

It looks like you informed yourselfe poor about the Rapberry PI project, what it stands for and why the codec licensing was done as it is.

Why i come to that conclusion is simple, my experience in developing for embeded devices. Once again, if you would be better informed you would know what my work on XBMC is. That includes : iPad, ATV2, CuBox and the major development for the Raspberry PI.

My personal point of view is, that quallifies me to make such conclusions.

You also didn't read my post's carefull enough. XBMC is ready to hardware decode mpeg2, vc1, dts, ac3 once the extra codec pack is available from the Raspberry PI foundation. When you complain here and not write the Raspberry PI foundation that you are intrested purchasing the extra codec pack, it will not change the situation at all. So everyone here, when you wanna have more codecs, start to write the foundation.

cheers

gimli