New HTPC: A6-3500, Wesena ITX7 build

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voip-ninja Offline
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Post: #31
bluray Wrote:It is oven affect instead. The heat from the component (CPU, GPU, etc) is transfer/dissipate to the component heat sinks. The heat you feel on the case is from the hot air that is trapped inside the case! Smile

There would be at least some dissipation effect from the chassis being a better conductor of heat than steel is.

For example, it's very well established that the aluminum enclosures in Apple products (which, as we know, you will never own) directly contribute to them being able to use quieter smaller fans in their computers, even though the enclosure is not actually designed as a direct contact heat-sink with the components.

My quad core i7 iMac gets quite toasty when doing huge encode batch jobs in handbrake, to the point that it's hot to the touch, even though the fans are barely idling. That's not hot air "trapped inside" the chassis, that's the aluminum dissipating the heat from inside of the chassis to the cooler outside air.
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bluray Offline
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Post: #32
voip-ninja Wrote:For example, it's very well established that the aluminum enclosures in Apple products (which, as we know, you will never own) directly contribute to them being able to use quieter smaller fans in their computers, even though the enclosure is not actually designed as a direct contact heat-sink with the components.
I agreed that certain metal absorb and dissipate heat better than another, but I don't see how the case can act as heat sink. I don't see the correlation here. The heat you feel on the case is generated by the hot air traps inside the case. If they build the case with proper exhaust ports and exhaust fan, very little heat will trap inside the case. Or if you leave one side of the case cover open to allow hot air out, you should not feel the heat on the case cover at the other side. Smile

>Alienware X51- do it all HTPC
>Simplify XBMC configurations
>HOW-TO Bitstreaming using XBMC
I refused to watch movie without bitstreaming HD audio!
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Balinus Offline
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Post: #33
Updated the 2nd post with new videos :

"Videos:
Boot up Boot

Performance inside XBMC
Performance inside XBMC"
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publicENEMY Offline
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Post: #34
bluray Wrote:It is oven affect instead. The heat from the component (CPU, GPU, etc) is transfer/dissipate to the component heat sinks. The heat you feel on the case is from the hot air that is trapped inside the case! Smile

I agreed that certain metal absorb and dissipate heat better than another, but I don't see how the case can act as heat sink. I don't see the correlation here. The heat you feel on the case is generated by the hot air traps inside the case. If they build the case with proper exhaust ports and exhaust fan, very little heat will trap inside the case. Or if you leave one side of the case cover open to allow hot air out, you should not feel the heat on the case cover at the other side.

If the the case does not act as an heat sink, than it is useless to use the case as cooler. one might just doesnt use any hsf at all.

the question is, can one does not use any cooler to use the processor?

maybe the owner could try open the case and try abuse the processor. if the case heatsink is hot, then it proves that the case is hot not because of the trapped hot air. well, not scientifically, but a good indication as to what actually happens.
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bluray Offline
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Post: #35
publicENEMY Wrote:If the the case does not act as an heat sink, than it is useless to use the case as cooler. one might just doesnt use any hsf at all.

the question is, can one does not use any cooler to use the processor?

maybe the owner could try open the case and try abuse the processor. if the case heatsink is hot, then it proves that the case is hot not because of the trapped hot air. well, not scientifically, but a good indication as to what actually happens.
I tried it on 2 PC's with the cover open. The case felt warm when the cover is closed, and when it is opened the case didn't feel warm. With cover off, the PC ran cooler too.

If you want a case that is built with heatsink, you have to get a case in the links below. It's designed and built with heat pipes connects to the case shell.

Serener GS-L05

Fanless Cases

>Alienware X51- do it all HTPC
>Simplify XBMC configurations
>HOW-TO Bitstreaming using XBMC
I refused to watch movie without bitstreaming HD audio!
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EnglishmaninNY Offline
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Post: #36
Belanus and others on this thread maybe interested in a similar but fanless build by politby on avsforum using the streacom fc8 (aka itx8):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1363820

Politby also did his build with an SSD and his boot up is ~30 seconds to XBMC.
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publicENEMY Offline
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Post: #37
"E=bluray;1011071]I tried it on 2 PC's with the cover open. The case felt warm when the cover is closed, and when it is opened the case didn't feel warm. With cover off, the PC ran cooler too.

If you want a case that is built with heatsink, you have to get a case in the links below. It's designed and built with heat pipes connects to the case shell.

Serener GS-L05

Fanless Cases[/quote]

"

you should tell people that you did test it with 2 cases before. Blush

thanks for the info. appreciate it. Laugh
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bluray Offline
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Post: #38
EnglishmaninNY Wrote:Belanus and others on this thread maybe interested in a similar but fanless build by politby on avsforum using the streacom fc8 (aka itx8):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1363820

Politby also did his build with an SSD and his boot up is ~30 seconds to XBMC.
He mentioned Origenae M10, and it is one of my favorite case. He should have built his HTPC with it. I mentioned it here- Origenae M10.

>Alienware X51- do it all HTPC
>Simplify XBMC configurations
>HOW-TO Bitstreaming using XBMC
I refused to watch movie without bitstreaming HD audio!
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mclog Offline
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Post: #39
Balinus Wrote:Updated the 2nd post with new videos :

"Videos:
Boot up Boot

Performance inside XBMC
Performance inside XBMC"

Looks good sir! Very snappy, especially looking at it with my ATV2 eyes. Time to build methinks =)
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publicENEMY Offline
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Post: #40
bluray Wrote:If you want a case that is built with heatsink, you have to get a case in the links below. It's designed and built with heat pipes connects to the case shell.

Serener GS-L05

Fanless Cases

how can the two case that you mention any better than the fanless wesena? afaik, the wesena case is also "designed and built with heat pipes connects to the case shell".
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mclog Offline
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Post: #41
publicENEMY Wrote:how can the two case that you mention any better than the fanless wesena? afaik, the wesena case is also "designed and built with heat pipes connects to the case shell".

Where do you see this info? I was reading the Wesena installation guide and there's no description of heat pipe installation in there.
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publicENEMY Offline
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Post: #42
mclog Wrote:Where do you see this info? I was reading the Wesena installation guide and there's no description of heat pipe installation in there.

http://www.wesena.com/pro_show.asp?id=196

from what i understand, bluray meant to say that the serener solution is a better solution than wesena. ive seen people(thread) that successfully uses wesena case as htpc, but cant find anything about serener.

i looked into all(almost) fanless solution for htpc. wesena/streacom, atech fabrication, hfx, habey, couple other i forgot.

wesena is one of the better(afaik, none is perfect)
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Balinus Offline
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Post: #43
mclog Wrote:Looks good sir! Very snappy, especially looking at it with my ATV2 eyes. Time to build methinks =)

Thanks! Yes, it is more snappier than I first thought it would be.

The setup is rather cheap, especially if you go with a cheaper case and no blu-ray ODD.

Happy hunting!
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Balinus Offline
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Post: #44
Let me chime in the debate about the heat, aluminum and steel.

Fourier's law that considers heat transfer is :

q = k A dT / s

where q is the quantity of heat transferred (units:W), k the thermal conductivity of the material (be it steel or aluminum) (W/m.K), A is the heat transfer area (m^2), dT = temperature difference across the material and s = material thickness (m).

So, let's consider that the case dimension are similar. Doing so, temperature inside the case and outside the case (dT), area (A) and thickness numbers are not important. In other words, le's say that aluminum is "number 1" and steel is "number 2" in the following equations :

q1=k1*A1*dT1/s1
q2=k2*A2*dT2/s2

As said earlier, we have a similar case, but of different material.Which means that A1=A2=A, dT1=dT2=dT and s1=s2=s. Replacing these values in both equation gives :

q1=k1*A*dT/s
q2=k2*A*dT/s

Then, we look at the ratio q1/q2, it gives a simple direct answer (A, dT and s cancels out, as they have equal values):

q1/q2=k1/k2.

Thermal conductivity of aluminum is 250 W/m*K and for steel (with 1% carbon) is 43 W/m*K and 16W/m/K for stainless steel. So, the ratio of q1/q2 gives:

q1/q2=5.8, for steel with 1% carbon and
q1/q2=15.6, for stainless steel.

Under similar load, the aluminum case will dissipate heat 5.8 and 15.6 times faster than steel (1% carbon) and stainless steel respectively.

So, under any given "impulsion" of X Watts towards the case (from heatpipe or air inside the case, or...?), the aluminum case will dissipate the heat faster, as Fourier's law tell us.
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publicENEMY Offline
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Post: #45
Balinus Wrote:Let me chime in the debate about the heat, aluminum and steel.

Fourier's law that considers heat transfer is :

q = k A dT / s

where q is the quantity of heat transferred (units:W), k the thermal conductivity of the material (be it steel or aluminum) (W/m.K), A is the heat transfer area (m^2), dT = temperature difference across the material and s = material thickness (m).

So, let's consider that the case dimension are similar. Doing so, temperature inside the case and outside the case (dT), area (A) and thickness numbers are not important. In other words, le's say that aluminum is "number 1" and steel is "number 2" in the following equations :

q1=k1*A1*dT1/s1
q2=k2*A2*dT2/s2

As said earlier, we have a similar case, but of different material.Which means that A1=A2=A, dT1=dT2=dT and s1=s2=s. Replacing these values in both equation gives :

q1=k1*A*dT/s
q2=k2*A*dT/s

Then, we look at the ratio q1/q2, it gives a simple direct answer (A, dT and s cancels out, as they have equal values):

q1/q2=k1/k2.

Thermal conductivity of aluminum is 250 W/m*K and for steel (with 1% carbon) is 43 W/m*K and 16W/m/K for stainless steel. So, the ratio of q1/q2 gives:

q1/q2=5.8, for steel with 1% carbon and
q1/q2=15.6, for stainless steel.

Under similar load, the aluminum case will dissipate heat 5.8 and 15.6 times faster than steel (1% carbon) and stainless steel respectively.

So, under any given "impulsion" of X Watts towards the case (from heatpipe or air inside the case, or...?), the aluminum case will dissipate the heat faster, as Fourier's law tell us.

thanks. +1
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