XBMC's Piracy Stance: Draft

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Martijn Offline
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Post: #196
(2012-11-26 16:02)leetut Wrote:  so that explains why my thread titled:
1channel putlocker/sockshare issues was immediately dumped into the garbage bin by "martijn"
who then decided to ignore my pm asking for an explanation why, (because im beneath him? maybe?)
so if id titled it "putlocker/sockshare" issues would it have been allowed?

when i first came to xbmc (2 years ago!!!!) it was for free skytv
personally i "actually thought the that these were core features of XBMC"
before i even knew what 1ch or icefilms or navi-x was (i learned about all of those here!)
a quick look on ebay-UK for appletv2 and almost every picture says "XBMC FREE SKYTV"
yet talk of that is still a daily occurrence here
is that legal? im just asking, i honestly dont know

and..
"We're trying to protect the XBMC project, and that's all."
if 1ch and ice films and the other "questionable" addons we still allow disappeared
pretty sure the XBMC project would be dead pretty quickly
the 2 are totally connected in my eyes, and the eyes of every one on ebay selling appletv2's
things like youtube bbciplayer ect are all now pretty much standard on smart tv's or freeview / youview type boxes
ive used a humax hdr fox t2 for the past few years for that kind of thing

not complaining just sharing a view
you all do a great job here
I ignore PM in general because if you have read the rules (which you obviously didn't) it states that you DO NOT pm devs!!!!!

If you are that short minded that you think XBMC thanks it's existence to some plugins you are totally of this world.
The vast majority don't even use those plugins (and you don't have to argue about that because it won't matter)

Besides look at the plugin repo which is filled with legal plugin that can be used for watching videos.

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forums before posting.
Do NOT e-mail Team-XBMC members asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting, make sure you read this first

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(This post was last modified: 2012-11-26 16:33 by Martijn.)
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Death-Axe Offline
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Post: #197
(2012-11-26 15:49)prawnee Wrote:  
(2012-11-25 23:51)Death-Axe Wrote:  but they said they where watching the dark knight rises, which isn't out until December, but is available for downloading).

Really? cos I'm holding the blu ray in my hands as we speak.

That is beside the point really. (I could point out that it was talked about being in their xbmc lib, but it doesn't matter any how).


Thanks fro clearing that up, Ned.

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Martijn Offline
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Post: #198
So you cant have blurays in your library?

So are disc stubs and personal rips all of a suddon removed from xbmc capabilities?

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forums before posting.
Do NOT e-mail Team-XBMC members asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting, make sure you read this first

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(This post was last modified: 2012-11-27 00:09 by Martijn.)
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Death-Axe Offline
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Post: #199
(2012-11-27 00:07)Martijn Wrote:  So you cant have blurays in your library?

So are disc stubs and personal rips all of a suddon removed from xbmc capabilities?

You doth protest too much, man. But no worries we are all doing the same sort of stuff here.

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PatK Online
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Post: #200
(2012-11-27 00:38)Death-Axe Wrote:  
(2012-11-27 00:07)Martijn Wrote:  So you cant have blurays in your library?

So are disc stubs and personal rips all of a suddon removed from xbmc capabilities?

You doth protest too much, man. But no worries we are all doing the same sort of stuff here.
No we're not doing the same stuff here.... (pretty myopic of you to suggest XBMC is only used in one way) That is the beauty of a program that is so diverse as XBMC, from Kisoks, tablets, phones, video players, home theaters, to weather stations.
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iR0NBiLL Offline
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Post: #201
I'm going to try and be as nice as humanly possible, because I know there are alot of the XBMC team who dislikes me to say it nicely...

I don't think it's too much to ask for Team XBMC to be consistent in it's so-called "piracy policy". I think everyone here realizes that since much of the original team has departed from the project, the changes coming down the line have been inconsistent at best and entirely biased at worst. Within your own camp, you all have people who develop all kinds of plugins and scrapers that aren't exactly 100% legal... in fact, not only is it a copyright violation to "re-broadcast" commercial content via code not developed by the original content broadcaster (which EVERY plugin does, regardless of how legal or illegal you THINK it is), but it's against their terms of service as well.

The reality is that no matter what convoluted theory you have behind "local" and "streaming" content, it is in fact a violation of copyright law either way you slice it. You all pick and choose your friends in XBMCland, point the finger at others and then distance yourself from developers who work hard to bring creative solutions to XBMC... in an attempt to pick up users of your app away from entities you don't like or don't care to work with.

I think before your piracy policy can be consistent, you need to get rid of anyone developing plugins, xml files with live streams or scrapers for Team XBMC. I see you choose to support even those who are in your camp, yet clearly violate your so-called piracy policy while you point the finger of blame elsewhere. You would never admit it honestly, so I don't intend on coming back to read the savage comments of XBMC fanboys who side with Team XBMC any chance they get without the facts...

I just think you all need to be consistent or put your money where your mouth is and stop promoting plugins and xml files for your XBMC friends while judging people you don't know. Consistency is about integrity and until this changes, you have none in the eyes of many. Just trying to point out facts...

Let the festival of hate begin. Big Grin

iRoNBiLL
(This post was last modified: 2012-12-06 23:43 by thrak76.)
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amet Offline
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Post: #202
Name one streaming addon that is made by team XBMC and that violates this and ill remove it


Always read the XBMC_Online_Manual,Frequently_Asked_Questions and search the forum before posting.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting use -> Log_file.
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Ned Scott Offline
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Post: #203
There is a big difference between violating an end user license agreement and breaking the law, though some would have you believe that EULA are enforceable by the law. Take the Hulu add-on for example, no rebroadcasting is occurring there at all. The content is pulled directly from the content delivery network servers. However, using the content outside of Hulu's flash or specific player apps is against their EULA. It's also against their EULA to view it on a TV rather than a computer, even if you are using a browser or the official Hulu desktop application.

We tried to find a middle ground to make everyone happy while providing reasonable protection for the XBMC organization. That's all we've cared about, and we really don't give a damn about the morals of piracy or any of that. We even let Navi-X discussion go on for a long while, but that was actually something we felt was where we were being inconsistent (sure, there were legal streams on it, but the vast majority of the content was blatant piracy. Note the use of the word "Blatant".). Ironically, that is what has lead you to get all upset about this and demand that no one else be allowed to play.

You're also making absurd assumptions like "in an attempt to pick up users of your app away from entities you don't like or don't care to work with". What? That was never the reason for this policy. I remember sending messages to add-on developers when this policy went into effect, telling them how sorry I was for the situation and offering to help in various ways, like directing users to a new forum, etc. I like those guys, and I still talk to some of them, and the same goes for others here.

This policy is not designed to stop all possible piracy, make a moral stance, or decide things for the end user. It's to provide reasonable separation for the blatant uses in order to protect the XBMC organization. Stop. Taking it. Personally.

You can make easy links to the XBMC wiki using double brackets around common XBMC words: [[debug log]] = debug log, [[Video library]] = Video library, [[SMB]] = SMB , [[userdata]] = userdata, etc
(This post was last modified: 2012-12-07 04:03 by Ned Scott.)
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Robotica Offline
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Post: #204
(2012-12-07 04:00)Ned Scott Wrote:  There is a big difference between violating an end user license agreement and breaking the law, though some would have you believe that EULA are enforceable by the law. Take the Hulu add-on for example, no rebroadcasting is occurring there at all. The content is pulled directly from the content delivery network servers. However, using the content outside of Hulu's flash or specific player apps is against their EULA. It's also against their EULA to view it on a TV rather than a computer, even if you are using a browser or the official Hulu desktop application.

We tried to find a middle ground to make everyone happy while providing reasonable protection for the XBMC organization. That's all we've cared about, and we really don't give a damn about the morals of piracy or any of that. We even let Navi-X discussion go on for a long while, but that was actually something we felt was where we were being inconsistent (sure, there were legal streams on it, but the vast majority of the content was blatant piracy. Note the use of the word "Blatant".). Ironically, that is what has lead you to get all upset about this and demand that no one else be allowed to play.

You're also making absurd assumptions like "in an attempt to pick up users of your app away from entities you don't like or don't care to work with". What? That was never the reason for this policy. I remember sending messages to add-on developers when this policy went into effect, telling them how sorry I was for the situation and offering to help in various ways, like directing users to a new forum, etc. I like those guys, and I still talk to some of them, and the same goes for others here.

This policy is not designed to stop all possible piracy, make a moral stance, or decide things for the end user. It's to provide reasonable separation for the blatant uses in order to protect the XBMC organization. Stop. Taking it. Personally.
Maybe I don't fully understand but if you want to protect the xbmc organization (I believe you mean for breaking the law?) why set it up in the USofA? Isn't the organization there to protect the software and it's users?
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DDDamian Offline
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Post: #205
Oops - sorry, mis-post. Was looking for the troll thread....

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Ned Scott Offline
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Post: #206
(2012-12-07 04:15)Robotica Wrote:  Maybe I don't fully understand but if you want to protect the xbmc organization (I believe you mean for breaking the law?) why set it up in the USofA? Isn't the organization there to protect the software and it's users?

Actually, no. At no point do I believe the XBMC organization could realistically be found guilty of breaking any laws, regardless of what add-ons we allow to be discussed here. That doesn't mean other companies won't try to go after us, or at the very least, make things difficult for us.

That being said, any legal or "semi-legal" concerns are actually the minor concerns the Team had when this policy was made. While it was still a factor, I think it would be fair to say that a bigger issue was that we wanted to make a clear statement that XBMC was neutral regarding video piracy. We don't promote it, but we don't limit what the end user chooses to do with the program. There's a whole bunch of reasons why that image/statement is important. We did not like the image that normal users were starting to get us of; that we were somehow formally involved in sites like IceFilms, that we were a source of that content. XBMC doesn't belong to the pirates, it belongs to everyone.

Setting the XBMC Foundation up in some lawless country would make no difference because we do business in several countries. The idea that we could somehow get a free pass by registering a PO Box on an island is laughable. We are not a shady dark organization that operates in secret. There is no realistic gain in using another country. It is not up for discussion, and I am tired of you insulting my country. It makes about as much sense as the Free Software Foundation deciding to move from being a US-organization to somewhere else.

It is not our job to protect users who want to download movies when doing so breaks their laws and international copyright laws. It is not our job to make a political statement about copyrights and any flaws copyright laws might have. It is our job to make media center software.

And Robotica, I'm warning you, don't you dare try to turn this into a bitch fest about the XBMC Foundation and the US.

You can make easy links to the XBMC wiki using double brackets around common XBMC words: [[debug log]] = debug log, [[Video library]] = Video library, [[SMB]] = SMB , [[userdata]] = userdata, etc
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davilla Offline
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Post: #207
The reality is that XBMC Foundation cannot be seen as directly supporting such addons as IceCast and friends. It greatly increases our exposed liability which would exist regardless of where XBMC Foundation is legally based. I wish this was not the case but reallife™ is cruel, cold, harsh mistress.

I'm sure that no one wants to wake up to see that XBMC has disappeared from the web, even if falsely accused.


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umOuch Offline
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Post: #208
I know, personally, how frustrating this news has been on many people/DEVS/users. That said, it is clearly for a point & a purpose that you all had to make the decision. The fact that you all took the time to redirect people to the new locations of these addons is a step that clearly did NOT have to happen. The policy implementation could have been much worse.

As a user, and as i have stated a million times on other threads, yes I am disappointed that it had to happen... but it could have been much worse. I realized that, for now, XBMC is not blocking addons from being developed. They simply are not supporting "questionable" third party addons.

Fact is I love XBMC. I would be devastated to see it go away. I also love many of the addons we don't discuss here. I would be devastated to see them go away. In the end... I simply bookmark two different forums. Wink

will always be grateful for XBMC and XBMC.ORG
(This post was last modified: 2012-12-09 04:35 by umOuch.)
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iR0NBiLL Offline
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Post: #209
The point has made itself. Big Grin

This is such a silly discussion, I won't even bother to rebuttle your so-called "arguments". People would rather make personal attacks than to find a common middle ground... such a waste of time.

I see however the policy has been cleared up (and further messed up Rolleyes ) so it's good to see you all "seem" to care about it... I'm just hoping you all will be mature about it and place your energy where it belongs as opposed to trying to openly attack developers and users of XBMC. We all just show up here to simply discuss reality as we see it... if you choose to blame and draw lines in the sand, that's your perrogative.

I don't think it's too much to ask for one's philosophy to be thorough and consistent. I leave you all with the choices you make... after all it's your app. There is no need to get hostile with the XBMC community as you all have here recently... I hope you all re-think your ways and continue to make an effort to think about your piracy policy... not everyone agrees that your policy is consistent and just because someone makes an effort to tell you all about this doesn't mean you should slam them for having an honest opinion.

Good luck with XBMC peeps! Big Grin

Regards,

iRoNBiLL
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thrak76 Offline
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Post: #210
(2012-12-06 23:01)iR0NBiLL Wrote:  ....so I don't intend on coming back to read the savage comments of XBMC fanboys who side with Team XBMC any chance they get without the facts...

(2013-01-09 18:47)iR0NBiLL Wrote:  ...I won't even bother to rebuttle your so-called "arguments".

Sure. Rolleyes
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