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[WINDOWS][PATCH]Bitstream output of HD audio formats
Probably to the HD Audio for Windows testing thread since that appears to have superseded this work.
Guys,

I have been reluctant to move from this patch build for Eden final to a nightly, hoping that we would eventually see an 11.1 that had "official" support for HD Audio.

Anyways, I'm seeing something odd and wanted to see if anyone had any ideas or comments.

I have an HTPC with an ATI Radeon 6450 which I use to bitstream HD Audio to my AVR. I had been using a Yamaha RX-V1800 and just recently purchased and installed a brand new Onkyo 818. This new Onkyo supports HDMI 1.4, etc.

What I have observed is that, similar to the Yamaha, if I simply set the XBMC output to "match frame-rate to source" and choose the HD audio options I get correct HD bit-streaming with no dropped frames (as reported by the debug overlay in XBMC). However, what I observe with the Onkyo that I did not see with the Yamaha is that periodically I see what appears to be a "jump" or "double frame" during playback in which it seems as though the playback jerks for a fraction of a second. I don't see any frame drops so I am suspicious that this is some kind of re-sync happening with the Onkyo which I did not have with the Yamaha.

Any thoughts? Would switching to the HD Audio branch matter at all for something like this?

Thanks.
Hey,

It could have something to do with the video convert (scaler) of the Onk.

Personally I don't like my video molested and therefore disable all video convert from my AVR.
Try disabling your video convert (scaler) on your Onk in the settings menu, it will probably disable you OSD but I use my AVR display for information purposes anyway, and therefore don't miss my AVRs OSD on my TV.

Untouched audio and video are more important for me than my OSD
Give that a shot and see hoe it goes Smile
Pat~
Thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I have the Onkyo set to "pass-thru" for the HDMI connection from the XBMC, so no processing shenanigans should be happening.
(2012-06-27, 01:31)voip-ninja Wrote: Thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I have the Onkyo set to "pass-thru" for the HDMI connection from the XBMC, so no processing shenanigans should be happening.

Do you get the jerky playback on all files? How have you setup your TV? I've recently bought a new TV and now that windows is set to 1080p24, I get judder in some files and audio sync issues on all files. Before I had my htpc set up as 1080p60 and had my Onkyo do all the 3:2 conversion. Everything looked fluent then.
CoreElec on a tn95 (s905x). Onkyo NR-656. Canton Movie CD-1000. LG 55B6V.

If it ain't broke: break it, fix it, repeat
(2012-06-27, 13:04)Raytestrak Wrote:
(2012-06-27, 01:31)voip-ninja Wrote: Thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I have the Onkyo set to "pass-thru" for the HDMI connection from the XBMC, so no processing shenanigans should be happening.

Do you get the jerky playback on all files? How have you setup your TV? I've recently bought a new TV and now that windows is set to 1080p24, I get judder in some files and audio sync issues on all files. Before I had my htpc set up as 1080p60 and had my Onkyo do all the 3:2 conversion. Everything looked fluent then.

It's hard to say as I've only had the AVR for about 1 week and have not had time to watch a lot of content. I am definitely though noticing more lip sync issues and the previously mentioned judder problem has been occurring periodically. I will say however that the audio upgrade with Audyssey XT32 is impressive.

I just updated to last night's build with the new audio engine so will have to do some more testing and see if the problem persists.

Does anyone know if the global lip sync settings still work in the latest builds? I might have to go in and put a ~150ms delay in for my 24P content. The Onkyo has an audio video sync adjustment but if I am looking at it correctly it can only add audio delay, not reduce it (which is what I need).
(2012-06-27, 16:07)voip-ninja Wrote:
(2012-06-27, 13:04)Raytestrak Wrote:
(2012-06-27, 01:31)voip-ninja Wrote: Thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I have the Onkyo set to "pass-thru" for the HDMI connection from the XBMC, so no processing shenanigans should be happening.

Do you get the jerky playback on all files? How have you setup your TV? I've recently bought a new TV and now that windows is set to 1080p24, I get judder in some files and audio sync issues on all files. Before I had my htpc set up as 1080p60 and had my Onkyo do all the 3:2 conversion. Everything looked fluent then.

It's hard to say as I've only had the AVR for about 1 week and have not had time to watch a lot of content. I am definitely though noticing more lip sync issues and the previously mentioned judder problem has been occurring periodically. I will say however that the audio upgrade with Audyssey XT32 is impressive.

I just updated to last night's build with the new audio engine so will have to do some more testing and see if the problem persists.

Does anyone know if the global lip sync settings still work in the latest builds? I might have to go in and put a ~150ms delay in for my 24P content. The Onkyo has an audio video sync adjustment but if I am looking at it correctly it can only add audio delay, not reduce it (which is what I need).

I'm still running Daniela's build, I only tried the nightlies on one occasion but it crashed a lot. Tried a fresh install, but it was'n't stable for me, even without playing any media. Is it working out for you?

Regarding the audio sync: it's true that the Onkyo only has positive audio delay but in the gui I had to reduce delay, while in the advancedsettigns.xml I had to use positive number +325 vs -325 in xbmc itself. Downside to setting a delay on the amp is that it is set for all framerates/resolutions. Not handy if you've set your htpc to 60Hz for example and have xbmc switch to 24p when needed.
CoreElec on a tn95 (s905x). Onkyo NR-656. Canton Movie CD-1000. LG 55B6V.

If it ain't broke: break it, fix it, repeat
The main problem in the nightly builds that I have seen is that when I exit XBMC it can take up to a minute to actually exit out.

I did find one setting in catalyst control that I changed that could have an impact on this, "enforce smooth motion". I thought I had that turned on at some point before, we'll see what it does.
Just tried the latest nightly. VERY briefly. Going back to a backup of Daniela's. Didn't have your exit-issue, but it didn't pickup my existing artwork, so xbmc started downloading banner and fanart again. And it force closed on me within 5 minutes. Balls ....

If there's anything I dislike about XBMC it's this. It doesn't handle fanart logically. Everything is cached at least twice and it doesn't cleanup in a proper manner too. Will try again sometime with a completely new database.
CoreElec on a tn95 (s905x). Onkyo NR-656. Canton Movie CD-1000. LG 55B6V.

If it ain't broke: break it, fix it, repeat
(2012-07-01, 19:12)Raytestrak Wrote: Just tried the latest nightly. VERY briefly. Going back to a backup of Daniela's. Didn't have your exit-issue, but it didn't pickup my existing artwork, so xbmc started downloading banner and fanart again. And it force closed on me within 5 minutes. Balls ....

If there's anything I dislike about XBMC it's this. It doesn't handle fanart logically. Everything is cached at least twice and it doesn't cleanup in a proper manner too. Will try again sometime with a completely new database.

A snarky dev is likely to respond to your criticism with "code submissions always welcome".

Rofl
(2012-07-03, 01:20)voip-ninja Wrote:
(2012-07-01, 19:12)Raytestrak Wrote: Just tried the latest nightly. VERY briefly. Going back to a backup of Daniela's. Didn't have your exit-issue, but it didn't pickup my existing artwork, so xbmc started downloading banner and fanart again. And it force closed on me within 5 minutes. Balls ....

If there's anything I dislike about XBMC it's this. It doesn't handle fanart logically. Everything is cached at least twice and it doesn't cleanup in a proper manner too. Will try again sometime with a completely new database.

A snarky dev is likely to respond to your criticism with "code submissions always welcome".

Rofl

Most he'll get out of me is "Hello World". Nerd

I wish I could, but I'm more likely to grow a donkey tail than to acquire awesome programming skills.

Think I'll just keep to giving advive where it's not wanted Wink
CoreElec on a tn95 (s905x). Onkyo NR-656. Canton Movie CD-1000. LG 55B6V.

If it ain't broke: break it, fix it, repeat
(2012-04-02, 09:11)thrak76 Wrote:
(2012-03-29, 05:44)DDDamian Wrote: A user asked about DVD-A and MLP files. Thought I'd share a few pointers about ripping/handling/playing.

That user was me! Big Grin

(2012-03-29, 05:44)DDDamian Wrote: DVD-Audio was one of two competitors to follow up on the Redbook CD standard - it's rival being SACD.

It was a way of storing high-definition audio on a DVD, making use of almost the full capacity of the DVD for tracks in PCM stored in MLP-packed format, and sometimes in DTS 96/24 format. Coming out later than normal DVD-Video, it was difficult to backup/rip due to a newer protection scheme and the use of a different structure than what most DVD-V ripping software used. Files were stored in the AUDIO_TS folder as opposed to the normal VIDEO_TS folder and .aobs were used similar to .vobs.

MLP stands for Meridian Lossless Packing, and is used in Dolby TrueHD lossless compression as well.

A program called DVD-A Explorer came to the rescue, allowing DVD-A's to be ripped in their native MLP-packed PCM, to unpacked PCM in wave headers, or with the addition of a path to FLAC.exe to FLAC-compressed lossless PCM.

Both formats are losslessly compressed, so either is identical in terms of audio quality.

MLP decoding has been part of FFMpeg for some time, and allows XBMC to unpack MLP to PCM, which was a feature used to bring lossless TrueHD decoding, but not bitstreaming, to XBMC. One of the things DanielaE has done is allow XBMC to bitstream MLP to a receiver capable of decoding it, including TrueHD and DVD-A MLP files. In the case of DVD-A, with FFMpeg repacking the audio in MLP dataframes and databursts, it maintains the 24-bit depth of DVD-A and TrueHD. Because the 24-bit data get's repacked into MLP frames it slips 24-bit data past the current XBMC 16-bit limitation.

So use DVD-A Explorer to rip/backup your precious DVD-A's and you can:
1) playback the MLP files and get lossless DVD-A
2) rip them further to 24-bit FLAC for track separation and metadata embedding. This further step can be done by ripping the files to wav's in DVD-A Explorer, then using EAC3TO and More GUI to convert to 24-bit FLAC and MP3Tag or other tagging software to embed metadata. When AE is merged you will get the full 24-bit glory from these as well, like all high-fidelity FLAC's.

I've got about 20 DVD-A's and especially since they are mostly out-of-print and few come out now (unlike SACD which has at least some titles still coming out) they are worth ripping. Hope that helps anyone who also has them and wants them preserved and part of their library.

This worked brilliantly. I skipped the step of using the eac3to and more gui, and just fed DVD-A explorer the flac.exe (as you suggested to me earlier), and the process was quick and plays back perfectly. It's so much nicer to have the surround tracks accessible through the music library, than how i was doing it before - ripping TS folders and setting up favorites in the skin for easy access. Now to dig out all the jewel cases and re-rip some surround music!

Thanks Damian!

I would also like to extend my thanks here. That would be for both the ability to playback DTSHD and TrueHD content in my movies, and, as I've recently discovered, MLP content. What a huge step toward all-out integration of media - Thanks!
(and the above procedure has also been invaluable in automating the FLAC conversion - awesome)

Now, for my question:
I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for keeping multichannel music separate from stereo music in one's music library. I like to set up my collection such that I use the Artist view in a wall format (Aeon MQ3), and clicking on any artist thumb will bring up thumbs by album. What I'd ideally like to do is to set up a music 'set', entitled "multichannel music" or the like. From what I've found, this option only works for movies at the moment.
The only alternative I can think of is to make my multichannel music have a uniform artist metadata field. If I made all my multi content have artist metadata of "multichannel", i could keep them separate from the stereo stuff, and sort by album within this makeshift artist category.

I'd rather not have to do that, though, as it's a workaround/compromise, and my OCD tendencies will come forth and wreak havoc over time (e.g. if I want to access them with another application down the road, the metadata won't make sense and will look dumb).
Does anyone have any solutions, less-invasive-workarounds, etc to this issue?
(2012-07-04, 09:42)goldsac Wrote:
(2012-04-02, 09:11)thrak76 Wrote: [quote='DDDamian' pid='1059552' dateline='1332992642']
A user asked about DVD-A and MLP files. Thought I'd share a few pointers about ripping/handling/playing.

Now, for my question:
I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for keeping multichannel music separate from stereo music in one's music library. I like to set up my collection such that I use the Artist view in a wall format (Aeon MQ3), and clicking on any artist thumb will bring up thumbs by album. What I'd ideally like to do is to set up a music 'set', entitled "multichannel music" or the like. From what I've found, this option only works for movies at the moment.
The only alternative I can think of is to make my multichannel music have a uniform artist metadata field. If I made all my multi content have artist metadata of "multichannel", i could keep them separate from the stereo stuff, and sort by album within this makeshift artist category.

I'd rather not have to do that, though, as it's a workaround/compromise, and my OCD tendencies will come forth and wreak havoc over time (e.g. if I want to access them with another application down the road, the metadata won't make sense and will look dumb).
Does anyone have any solutions, less-invasive-workarounds, etc to this issue?

I am doing the same thing, but instead of changing the artist I am using "multichannel" tag in the "Genre" field, given that the collection is small (compare to stereo) this suits me.
The ideal thing would be to have a smart playlist that filters by number of audiochannels, but unfortunatly it looks like smart playlists currently only support audiochannels for videos.

Might be a good idea to request support for this.
Thanks for chiming in.
atlind - I hadn't thought of using Genre. That's actually quite tolerable compared to using the artist field.
sialivi - Exactly. Smart playlists would be ideal. Hopefully a future update tweaks things in our favour.
I created a request thread here, http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=135346 so make your voices heard
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[WINDOWS][PATCH]Bitstream output of HD audio formats17