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[solved] Eden Audio Quality
#76
Yeah that was Audacity. It was actually captured from my Macbook, which is my other XBMC installation. I can hear the difference even with the Macbook's internal speakers, so no high end equipment is needed, or hifi ears.

My third XBMC setup is on iPad 2 and it sounds great, no problems there.

Not sure what else there is to add..
#77
Okay, Let's pop in again!

Found some time and made some samples. All uploaded on Soundcloud (overview: http://soundcloud.com/zokkel )

system: Mac Mini (I think 2nd gen), OS X 10.5, itunes, Eden, Soundflower, Audacity
meaning: NO amplifier connected (NO audio output at all connected), all songs live recorded on and in MAC OS X

sample 1: http://soundcloud.com/zokkel/test-itunes
Song played on itunes. To use as reference. All sounds fine here. Listen carefully when the guitars kick in @26 sec!

sample 2: http://soundcloud.com/zokkel/test-normal-eden
Song played on a default version of Eden (No advancedsettings.xml!). Here you clearly see in the waveform that everything is mighty-flat and you hear a mighty difference in the part where the guitars kick in (@26 sec)

sample 3: http://soundcloud.com/zokkel/test-eden-l...-0-audio-0
Song played in Eden with advancedsettings.xml (limiterhold at 0 and limiterrelease at 0, see: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1075922) AND audio level on 0db.
You can't see it that good, but now the song is played too loud and the bass kick is clipped (not the best sample, but in other songs there's a clear clipping noise)

sample 4: http://soundcloud.com/zokkel/test-eden-l...0-audio-24
Song played in Eden with advancedsettings.xml AND audio level on -24db.
That's my solution for the problem. You see that the waveform is again identical to the one played in itunes. There is no flattening here and no clipping of the bass kicks. Only disadvantage: volume at -24db, so I put the volume of my MAC in OS X up to 90% and my amplifier is at 35%.

In the overview (http://soundcloud.com/zokkel ), there is a huge difference in the waveform between the default Eden settings and the one played on itunes. I think you can't ignore the difference when you play it as well (definitely the part @26sec).

guisettings: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75360127/guisettings.xml
advancedsettings: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/75360127/advancedsettings.xml

Hope the problem gets a bit clearer now...
Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Kodi v19.1 "Matrix"
Intel NUC8i3BEH (Samsung 970 Evo, G. Skill Ripjaws 8GB)
Samsung UE49KS7000, Logitech Harmony remote 350
AudioEngine D1, Synology DS218j NAS (SMB protocol)
#78
Zokkel,

that's nice work. In your 2nd sample I can clearly hear the overall volume oscillating around 0:26. Maybe I find some more time and do that for my test songs, too.

I forgot to post my xml files. So here they are. Unfortunately setting the limiter values to 0 does ot work for me

advancedsettings.xml: http://pastebin.com/c96rG6SF
guisettings.xml: http://pastebin.com/39txhCbM
I have a general question though: Where could I set the output level to -24dB? I still don't think that this is a solution for me because I would have to rise the amplifier level and therefore amplify also the noise (S/N ratio goes down!)
#79
(2012-04-24, 09:28)t-amat Wrote: I have a general question though: Where could I set the output level to -24dB? I still don't think that this is a solution for me because I would have to rise the amplifier level and therefore amplify also the noise (S/N ratio goes down!)

Euhm, Don't search it too far. That's just the volume of xbmc. If you play music or video, just press down on your volume button (on your remote). If you don't have a remote, I think the best way is to play a video. Call up the audio and subtitle settings and put the volume (NOT Volume Amplification!) down to -24db. Or the easiest way: just press "-" on your keyboard (http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Keyboard ) till you reach -24db (or till there's no clipping sound anymore, can be -12db or -36db... -24db works for me)

If you run XBMC on win or mac, put the volume of win/OS X up to 90% (cause that's digital amplifying-> will not increase noise), then you don't need to put your amplifier all up.
Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Kodi v19.1 "Matrix"
Intel NUC8i3BEH (Samsung 970 Evo, G. Skill Ripjaws 8GB)
Samsung UE49KS7000, Logitech Harmony remote 350
AudioEngine D1, Synology DS218j NAS (SMB protocol)
#80
(2012-04-23, 21:55)DyStiC Wrote: What can i do to help you guys solve this problem?

If I understand it correctly: sharing your guissettings.xml (can be found in the userdata folder: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Userdata )
Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Kodi v19.1 "Matrix"
Intel NUC8i3BEH (Samsung 970 Evo, G. Skill Ripjaws 8GB)
Samsung UE49KS7000, Logitech Harmony remote 350
AudioEngine D1, Synology DS218j NAS (SMB protocol)
#81
Just a thought that slipped my mind while reading:

(2012-03-22, 12:53)Ned Scott Wrote: XBMC audio runs a lot quieter than other applications on Mac OS X, which in turn requires the volume to be higher.

Is it possible that the default settings for the limiterhold (0.025) and limiterrelease (0.1) are based upon windows audio levels?
So in order to work correctly on MAC, they should be adjusted?
I have no clue if they should be up or down. I read the whole section with the explanation (http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...#pid898388 ), but sorry, I don't understand it Sad
Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Kodi v19.1 "Matrix"
Intel NUC8i3BEH (Samsung 970 Evo, G. Skill Ripjaws 8GB)
Samsung UE49KS7000, Logitech Harmony remote 350
AudioEngine D1, Synology DS218j NAS (SMB protocol)
#82
try this version please. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14341410/XBMC-audio-test2.zip

#83
(2012-03-22, 12:53)Ned Scott Wrote: XBMC audio runs a lot quieter than other applications on Mac OS X, which in turn requires the volume to be higher. Try listening to the audio and unplugging your power supply. I noticed the other day hearing the same thing on my MBP, and unplugging my power supply fixed it. That can be caused by the power supply itself being "dirty" or even another device somewhere in your house that is "dirty" but on the same circuit.

Now obviously you don't want to run just on battery power, so you would want to find what is making the dirty power or get a UPS to plug the laptop into (which will clean the power, in addition to providing a battery backup), etc.

If that still doesn't fix it, or isn't the issue... then I would be worried.

I think you will find that the thing that is actually dirty is the MBP power supply. The reason is that laptop power supplies don't generally have to be very good since the majority of their work is to charge a battery, which doesn't require clean power to begin with. Because of this the small laptop power supplies are manufacture really cheap because they don't need to be high end to do what they do. Unfortunately the side effect is noise in you are using headphones.
#84
(2012-04-24, 15:52)WordMasterRice Wrote:
(2012-03-22, 12:53)Ned Scott Wrote: XBMC audio runs a lot quieter than other applications on Mac OS X, which in turn requires the volume to be higher. Try listening to the audio and unplugging your power supply. I noticed the other day hearing the same thing on my MBP, and unplugging my power supply fixed it. That can be caused by the power supply itself being "dirty" or even another device somewhere in your house that is "dirty" but on the same circuit.

Now obviously you don't want to run just on battery power, so you would want to find what is making the dirty power or get a UPS to plug the laptop into (which will clean the power, in addition to providing a battery backup), etc.

If that still doesn't fix it, or isn't the issue... then I would be worried.

I think you will find that the thing that is actually dirty is the MBP power supply. The reason is that laptop power supplies don't generally have to be very good since the majority of their work is to charge a battery, which doesn't require clean power to begin with. Because of this the small laptop power supplies are manufacture really cheap because they don't need to be high end to do what they do. Unfortunately the side effect is noise in you are using headphones.

Sorry, but not the problem!
If you read the next comment: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1052523
And along with all others who share this problem: the audio in itunes/finder/any other program is fine. can't possibly be that a power supply only affects XBMC? We call that racisme Tongue
Windows 10 Pro (64bit), Kodi v19.1 "Matrix"
Intel NUC8i3BEH (Samsung 970 Evo, G. Skill Ripjaws 8GB)
Samsung UE49KS7000, Logitech Harmony remote 350
AudioEngine D1, Synology DS218j NAS (SMB protocol)
#85
(2012-04-24, 14:48)davilla Wrote: try this version please. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14341410/XBMC-audio-test2.zip
Tried, no change.

Zokkel's samples are very good, that's exactly what is going on. I can hear right from the start in sample2 that it's not what it's supposed to be.
#86
humm, very odd, There should be some difference seen. MasterGain initial value was dropped from 6 to 0.
#87
@toiva, describe exactly how you captured the signal in audacity. Details matter so be exact.
#88
(2012-04-24, 16:42)davilla Wrote: @toiva, describe exactly how you captured the signal in audacity. Details matter so be exact.

I really only pressed record Big Grin So the audio was playing from Macbook speakers and recorded by the built-in mic. Then simply turned on the waveform view. The worst possible to record it, i know. I tried to keep the system volume level same in Finder and XBMC.
#89
(2012-04-24, 12:48)Zokkel Wrote: If I understand it correctly: sharing your guissettings.xml (can be found in the userdata folder: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Userdata )
Here goes; advancedsettings.xml
And guissettings.xml

Hope this helps...

[Edit] Also tested the version posted by davilla, but as toiva i don't hear any difference Sad
#90
I guess the way Zokkel was doing it is even better since Soundflower just routes the the signal from the internal output to the input, i.e. some sort of loop back device. The mic can always produce strange things since its frequency response is, uhm, not hifi.

Later this evening I will again record my test sample and put it on soundcloud. I will use the new version davilla posted.

@Zokkel:
Let's talk about the noise again. I guess we're thinking of different issues. I always keep the volume of the MacBook at 100% since in that way I'm fully using the dynamic range of the DAC. And assuming that I don't use any EQ and master levels this should not cause clipping at all, since no processing is involved. When I was using itunes I had the iTunes volume at 100%, the MAcBook hardware volume at 100% and the volume I was controlling on the amplifier - the last point of the signal chain. As soon as you fiddle on the digital volume, you can either get clipping, or noise. In both cases you reduce the dynamic range of the signal.

Just my 2ct


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[solved] Eden Audio Quality1