Linux - Which TV server would you recommend?

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LastCoder Offline
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Tongue  RE: Which TV server would you recommend?
Post: #16
Hi,

I prefer tvheadend. As said before - it's simple to install and maintain via a Web-Interface, very ressource efficient, fast and easy to setup for more advanced techniques that are not allowed to be discussed here Rofl.

Timeshift - let's first define it - do you mean the service of permanent instant recording ? This was one of the "features" which is why I abandoned Windows MCE or MythTV (I read that you can't disable it in both programs ..) .. I simply don't want the tv server to record the whole time 'cause it stresses the disc ..

You can "emulate" timeshift simply by starting to record a program and going to it's destination folder where you start watching the recorded video file .. that's timeshift that works - and all I need ..

So long

LastCoder

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Server, Xfce, XBMC Gotham, Skin reFred, tvheadend tv backend
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KRA77 Offline
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Post: #17
(2012-05-15 15:45)LastCoder Wrote:  Timeshift - let's first define it - do you mean the service of permanent instant recording ? This was one of the "features" which is why I abandoned Windows MCE or MythTV (I read that you can't disable it in both programs ..) .. I simply don't want the tv server to record the whole time 'cause it stresses the disc ..

RAM is cheap these days Wink
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nobleach Offline
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Post: #18
(2012-05-15 16:49)KRA77 Wrote:  
(2012-05-15 15:45)LastCoder Wrote:  Timeshift - let's first define it - do you mean the service of permanent instant recording ? This was one of the "features" which is why I abandoned Windows MCE or MythTV (I read that you can't disable it in both programs ..) .. I simply don't want the tv server to record the whole time 'cause it stresses the disc ..

RAM is cheap these days Wink

While this is true, the transport streams are not simply stored in RAM. They are flushed to disk fairly quickly. It would be nice for this "buffering" not to happen unless someone is actually watching LiveTV.
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Mantus Offline
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Post: #19
(2012-05-15 11:51)ph77 Wrote:  
(2012-05-15 06:52)Mantus Wrote:  .... mythtv ... you could write a master thesis on how to set up mythtv right Big Grin
MythTv has been on the tv recording game for many many years. I'm using it for about 7 years and IMHO it's the best software there is in that front. It's only natural that it has *many* configuration options but I think the defaults are sane for any newbie, the setup wizards are working fine and the docs are plenty. You can setup a backend with mythbuntu in half an hour. Then you have the mythweb interface from which you can control everything.
In few months time with the release of Frodo you'll have full power on it from within XBMC (tsp's plugin already does a lot and Myth0.25 integration will be soon there).

In my current family htpc setup, I use MythWeb to setup recording rules and I've added the recordings folder as a video source in XBMC. So MythBackend (0.25) does the recording and I watch them from XBMC as video files. In that way I can watch even livetv with timeshifting.

tvheadend is installed with just one line (apt-get) on my allready running ubuntu server.
oscam and mythtv is also not that easy, like adding a codewordclient in tvheadend
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ph77 Offline
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Post: #20
(2012-05-15 19:58)Mantus Wrote:  tvheadend is installed with just one line (apt-get) on my allready running ubuntu server.
oscam and mythtv is also not that easy, like adding a codewordclient in tvheadend
Similarly apt-get install mythtv-backend-master mythtv-frontend.Smile
The point is not if you spend 10 minutes or half an hour to set it up, but what you demand from it and how well it suits your needs.
I setup my current server only once, two years ago and never touched it again. I upgraded from 0.24 to 0.25 with only the apt-get. But the features is what counts.
I have some complex recording rules which are impossible to achieve with tvheadend or vdr.
For example check out the "Power Search" in custom recording rules (in MythWeb or MythFrontend). You have unlimited power over the recording rules.
Then EIT data come smoothly in MythTv whereas in the other programs I've always had problems when I tried them.
(This post was last modified: 2012-05-15 22:59 by ph77.)
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tsp42 Offline
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Post: #21
(2012-05-15 19:45)nobleach Wrote:  
(2012-05-15 16:49)KRA77 Wrote:  
(2012-05-15 15:45)LastCoder Wrote:  Timeshift - let's first define it - do you mean the service of permanent instant recording ? This was one of the "features" which is why I abandoned Windows MCE or MythTV (I read that you can't disable it in both programs ..) .. I simply don't want the tv server to record the whole time 'cause it stresses the disc ..

RAM is cheap these days Wink

While this is true, the transport streams are not simply stored in RAM. They are flushed to disk fairly quickly. It would be nice for this "buffering" not to happen unless someone is actually watching LiveTV.
It is only happening when someone is watching LiveTV...

Libcmyth MythTV addon for xbmc-pvr [source] [forum thread]
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KRA77 Offline
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Post: #22
(2012-05-15 23:05)tsp42 Wrote:  
(2012-05-15 19:45)nobleach Wrote:  
(2012-05-15 16:49)KRA77 Wrote:  RAM is cheap these days Wink

While this is true, the transport streams are not simply stored in RAM. They are flushed to disk fairly quickly. It would be nice for this "buffering" not to happen unless someone is actually watching LiveTV.
It is only happening when someone is watching LiveTV...

Yes, and ofcourse the idea was to set up a ramdisk for your TS buffer.
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ixian Offline
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Post: #23
I don't understand the concern regarding timeshifting and disk stress. After all, commercial PVR systems do this, with the same types of hard drives, and they work for years on end. I used to use Mediaportal, for several years, and never had a problem. It's not gonna kill your disks Smile
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Mantus Offline
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Post: #24
(2012-05-15 22:58)ph77 Wrote:  But the features is what counts.
I have some complex recording rules which are impossible to achieve with tvheadend or vdr.
For example check out the "Power Search" in custom recording rules (in MythWeb or MythFrontend). You have unlimited power over the recording rules.
as you say it Wink
the features count ... i do not have a single record rule, i never recorded anything in nearly a year now (i have a usenet account)
on the other side an oscam integration for mythtv is much more complicated than with tvheadend.

(2012-05-15 22:58)ph77 Wrote:  Then EIT data come smoothly in MythTv whereas in the other programs I've always had problems when I tried them.
now thats a feature that realy counts, due to the fact that tvheadend is loosing data :/ maybe ill give it a try, but as far as i know the oscam integration will take its time :/
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LastCoder Offline
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Post: #25
(2012-05-16 02:07)ixian Wrote:  I don't understand the concern regarding timeshifting and disk stress. After all, commercial PVR systems do this, with the same types of hard drives, and they work for years on end. I used to use Mediaportal, for several years, and never had a problem. It's not gonna kill your disks Smile

maybe .. but it makes a difference if you have a media center with thousands of media content or a simple pvr system .. it takes some time to install and maintain a well running setup and it's hard to backup terrabytes of media content; if the drives crashes it takes a lot of time to do the setup again .. and don't forget: a hard disc is a mechanical system - it surely will break one day, with bad luck today, if your drive is a lemon car .. of 'course (hm with WMCE it wasn't that easy) you can switch ring buffer location to RAM or SSD .. but I don't use timeshift and have never used it, so why throw money down the drain for features I don't want .. DVBViewer solved it - you can activate or deactivate Timeshift there .. MythTV & WMCE cannot ..

Btw. before I switched to XBMC & TvHeadend (an excellent - no, the best - combination), I gave MythTV (and all the other "solutions") a try - sorry folks - IMHO it's a lousy piece of software, far behind the quality of WMCE, DVBViewer, XBMC and even Mediaportal, which suckz too .. I managed to configure it, but it took a lot of time, it's ugly, it's slow - and I don't care about complicated record scheduling rules - I don't want to put hours into programming my HTPC .. and VDR is the only alternative as tv backend for linux .. frontend suckz too ..

@Mantus: EPG works fine with TVHeadend, als long as provided by channels. You can add - if available - XMLTV sources too. I had the same problem loosing more and more EPG channel information - it was a hardware problem, I changed sat wall jack and cable and now everything is fine again ..

So long

LastCoder

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS Server, Xfce, XBMC Gotham, Skin reFred, tvheadend tv backend
ASUS P8H61-M LE/USB3, Celeron G530, Geforce 210, 4 GB DDR3 RAM
16 GB CnMemory 300x CF, 1 TB Samsung 2,5" HDD
iHOS104 BluRay Drive, TT DVBS2-1600
Silverstone GD05B Case, Sony PS3 BD Remote control, Logitech Cordless Mediaboard Pro for PS3
(This post was last modified: 2012-05-16 09:57 by LastCoder.)
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Mantus Offline
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Post: #26
(2012-05-16 09:45)LastCoder Wrote:  @Mantus: EPG works fine with TVHeadend, als long as provided by channels. You can add - if available - XMLTV sources too. I had the same problem loosing more and more EPG channel information - it was a hardware problem, I changed sat wall jack and cable and now everything is fine again ..
if i remove a channel and add it again epg reapeares for some time.
Never thought this could be a hardware problem. but i also didnt want to remove all channel an add it again Wink too much work.

thanks ill give it a try
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nobleach Offline
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Post: #27
(2012-05-16 01:32)KRA77 Wrote:  Yes, and ofcourse the idea was to set up a ramdisk for your TS buffer.

Now that sounds like a very intriguing idea....
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Kirky99 Offline
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Post: #28
Yep, it works...
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ixian Offline
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Post: #29
(2012-05-16 09:45)LastCoder Wrote:  maybe .. but it makes a difference if you have a media center with thousands of media content or a simple pvr system .. it takes some time to install and maintain a well running setup and it's hard to backup terrabytes of media content; if the drives crashes it takes a lot of time to do the setup again .. and don't forget: a hard disc is a mechanical system - it surely will break one day, with bad luck today, if your drive is a lemon car .. of 'course (hm with WMCE it wasn't that easy) you can switch ring buffer location to RAM or SSD .. but I don't use timeshift and have never used it, so why throw money down the drain for features I don't want .. DVBViewer solved it - you can activate or deactivate Timeshift there .. MythTV & WMCE cannot ..

Btw. before I switched to XBMC & TvHeadend (an excellent - no, the best - combination), I gave MythTV (and all the other "solutions") a try - sorry folks - IMHO it's a lousy piece of software, far behind the quality of WMCE, DVBViewer, XBMC and even Mediaportal, which suckz too .. I managed to configure it, but it took a lot of time, it's ugly, it's slow - and I don't care about complicated record scheduling rules - I don't want to put hours into programming my HTPC .. and VDR is the only alternative as tv backend for linux .. frontend suckz too ..

@Mantus: EPG works fine with TVHeadend, als long as provided by channels. You can add - if available - XMLTV sources too. I had the same problem loosing more and more EPG channel information - it was a hardware problem, I changed sat wall jack and cable and now everything is fine again ..

So long

LastCoder

So don't timeshift on your main disk then. Better yet, don't run everything, timeshifting or not, on one disk Smile This is a pretty easy problem to solve if you are that worried about it. :-)

Timeshifting is one of the things that makes a PVR a PVR....maybe THE thing. There are tons of solutions if all you want to do is archive/record, heck we've been able to do that even without XBMC PVR builds. That's why so many of us are patiently waiting, and lobbying, for timeshifting.

As for TVHeadend, does it work with Analog capture cards at all? I thought it didn't. I didn't even know it supported ATSC though I could be wrong about the latter. No analog capture means no set top boxes means TVHeadend isn't a solution for a lot of folks, which is why you see so many on MythTV/FTR/MePo combos Smile

If it does support devices like the HD-PVR then I will take another look at it, I'm always up for trying new software.
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bluzee Offline
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Post: #30
Being able to hit pause while watching TV and then come back and pick up where you left off after answering the phone or what ever is kind of what I really want. I guess being able to hit the record button is a close second. VLC does a really nice job of time shifting. It doesn't write anything to the disk until you actually hit the pause button. So if you don't need it there is no disk activity.

I really like the simplicity of tvheadend, but it has a huge problem with use on a motorized dish system. First of all it can't control the positioner to turn the dish but secondly and much more problematic is that is rescans all your Muxes ever time you start it up. If you have moved the dish to a different satellite it will often find a different transponder on the same frequency and scan in the channels from it corrupting the channel data that was previously scanned in on a different satellite.

Myth has a major tuning issue. It requires transport streams to be configured with proper Service Tables. Half the stuff here in North America doesn't have service tables and some don't even have program tables. You have to manual enter program PIDS as there is no way to scan them in. It all means that Myth can't tune half the channels I watch. Kind of a deal breaker.

I have yet to try VDR. Looks like a pain to configure compared to tvheadend, especially for XMLTV listings but should at least be able to tune things OK and not corrupt itself with needless automatic scanning.
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