[funkhouser]

I'm joining the party late and doing something I should have done a long time ago in building a HTPC. The limitations of retail media boxes are just too much to ignore. The box will be used for playback of local content but also for watching Freesat and Freeview, Netflix, HULU, BBC/C4/ITV players. It will be connected to a 50" LG plasma. Later on I will add a bluray drive for 3D and a suitable 3D TV but that probably won't be until next year when I'm building a new HTPC anyway.

I've torn my hair out, probably needlessly, in deciding on the hardware for what will be a budget build. The main questions were ITX over MATX and A8 or i3. Also whether to go with a solid state drive or not.

I went with MATX over ITX as the best motherboard for ITX, the ASUS A75 with the remote and the wifi built in, is no longer available and you need to be certain about spacing and cooling when building ITX. And after reading up a lot, I wasn't certain I could do it painlessly and I didn't want to spend so much time finding the right setup and maybe modifying the hardware when I can order a MATX case and build quickly. I will be building a 2nd box later this year when new APUs are available, I'll build a more discrete ITX box then. So although there are nicer (more discrete) cases available for ITX mobos, I'm going with MATX for now.

I've decided to go for AMD A8 over Intel i3 as I will play a limited amount of gaming and there is no debate over which is better for that purpose. I will do only a very limited amount of transcoding. I like the fact the A8 deals with the 23.976fps issue very well out of the box (I know there are Directshow filters-for all platforms obviously- and new drivers/bios updates for the Intel that make it barely noticeable but I've yet to read anyone conclusively state the issue is resolved with the cheaper SB processors). I love film mode and the feel it gives so if I went with Intel and it was noticeable at short intervals it would irritate me. I don't know that it is still a major issue but the review I've linked to above shows a problem with A8 every 1000 seconds which I will live with.

People tout the i3 as it gives you upgrading options but with the unlocked A8-3870k you can gain 20% more computing power with overclocking and with the dual graphics option there is the option to upgrade that side too. That said the A8 does everything you should ever need with a HTPC (bar, maybe, 1080p60) and I shouldn't need any more.

I've decide to test the build without an SSD as I have 1x1TB and 1x2TB SATA disks spare and I can use one for boot and one for storage. They're SATA-300 but as they'll be on different channels so it should mean plenty of bandwidth.

My build:

ASRock A75M-HVS, FM1, mATX. It's a pity this mobo doesn't come bundled with the ASRock remote and CIR module.
AMD A8-3870K APU
Antec NSK 1380 case
4GB-Kit GeIL EVO Corsa PC3-14900U CL9-10-9-28 (DDR3-1866)
Technisat Skystar S2 Express
Logilink Nano USB (just to have there, the box will be wired to the DSL router).
Logilink DVB-T USB

The last two items are subject to a bit of research to make sure they work in Windows + XBMC + backend.

The final piece of the puzzle is the remote, trying to find a remote with a very discrete USB plug (like the Wifi dongle) that I can plug into the front USB port, I want to be able to boot from S4 or S5 state. The ideal is to try source the ASRock Smart Remote or similar and wire it inside to the CIR header for boot. I can't find it on sale in Europe.

Thanks for reading. Any comments/criticism welcome.

I will be ordering over the weekend. Pics and build blog to follow. Great forum, a lot of info has been gleaned from here.

[assassin]

I've decided to go for AMD A8 over Intel i3 as I will play a limited amount of gaming and there is no debate over which is better for that purpose. I will do only a very limited amount of transcoding. I like the fact the A8 deals with the 23.976fps issue very well out of the box (I know there are Directshow filters-for all platforms obviously- and new drivers/bios updates for the Intel that make it barely noticeable but I've yet to read anyone conclusively state the issue is resolved with the cheaper SB processors). I love film mode and the feel it gives so if I went with Intel and it was noticeable at short intervals it would irritate me. I don't know that it is still a major issue but the review I've linked to above shows a problem with A8 every 1000 seconds which I will live with.

I beg to differ. I think there is absolutely some debate.

First, if you are doing any kind of serious gaming you need to know that the A8 can't do games at full resolution. So in my opinion its a non-starter for that purpose. However depending on your gaming needs it may work.

Second, a G620 (or i3 CPU which you can often find now for $99) plus a discrete gaming card is a much better option. This is especially true for you since you are using a m-ATX case.

Finally, since you are doing some transcoding you need to consider going with the most powerful but most energy efficient CPU. Right now that is Intel.

A discrete GPU usually results in better "24p" as well but even this is up for debate.

[Dougie Fresh]

I have the NSK1380, it was one of the first HTPC cases I ever bought. It's a nice case but it has some drawback to be aware of.

First, and most important, the PSU and the ODD sit over the top of the CPU. This leaves very little ventilation for the CPU HSF. I found I needed the included slot blower to keep temperatures down which added to the noise. There is no place in this case for case fans so a slot blower is the only option. This was with a 45W AMD 5050e. I have to believe it'll be much worse with a 100W A8.

Two, the cables on the PSU are abnormally short. A 24-pin ATX power extension is recommended otherwise you have to pass the cable right over the motherboard and depending on the location of the CPU, it might interfere.

I think there are better choices, even from Antec.

[Arkitket]

Just a heads up, there are a lot of reviews of the HVS on Newegg stating that you will need a discrete video card initially because the motherboard doesn't default to the onboard GPU for video display.

And to build off of Dougie's post, the Silverstone ML03b is the case that I will be getting, it seems to be highly recommendable.

[Dougie Fresh]

ML03B is a good case -- you just need to make sure all the expansion card you want to use are all available in low-profile.

[funkhouser]

First, if you are doing any kind of serious gaming you need to know that the A8 can't do games at full resolution. So in my opinion its a non-starter for that purpose. However depending on your gaming needs it may work.

Second, a G620 (or i3 CPU which you can often find now for $99) plus a discrete gaming card is a much better option. This is especially true for you since you are using a m-ATX case.

I don't think there's any debate that the 3000 can match the A8's Radeon for gaming.. Every test bears this out. Also, it's for a limited amount of gaming. I've looked at the benchmarks, I'm happy it can do what I need it to. If I was going to add a discrete card I would have gone with the Intel for sure. It is a hotly debated subject, I've gone back and forth a few times myself but I have to settle on something.

Finally, since you are doing some transcoding you need to consider going with the most powerful but most energy efficient CPU

It's a very, very limited amount of transcoding. The Intel's engine & performance is very impressive in this area over the A8. The power envelope of the i3 is an improvement over the A8 in a lot of tasks but not by much, A8 is better at idle.

A discrete GPU usually results in better "24p" as well but even this is up for debate.

I was thinking of going with the nVidia for the custom refresh but even this does not get it perfect and the review of the A8 linked to above gets even closer to it. I'm going to avoid using a discrete card completely.

---

Just a heads up, there are a lot of reviews of the HVS on Newegg stating that you will need a discrete video card initially because the motherboard doesn't default to the onboard GPU for video display.

And to build off of Dougie's post, the Silverstone ML03b is the case that I will be getting, it seems to be highly recommendable.

Noted on the case. I have a card if needs be, what a stupid default!

Choosing a case is one thing I've definitely struggled with, even so far as going from wanting to build ITX to MATX because I wasn't certain about a few things. I will take a look.

[Arkitket]

I in the end went with Intel, but did some research regarding both CPU's. I agree, it is a stupid default. Some have said that it will work if you connect a VGA cable to onboard, and only HDMI doesn't work without changing BIOS settings, others have said that it will eventually work after 3 times of it trying to find a discrete card. Either way, if you have a extra card laying around then you have nothing to worry about

Personally, I am going to go with the ML03b because I really liked the dimensions, it is about twice as thick as my Bluray player, and about the same width/depth. It also fits nicely in my entertainment center. Other things to note about this case though (other then needing LoPro expansion cards) is that the PSU is limited to 140mm deep, and the ODD is limited to 170mm deep, and the CPU cooler is limited to 70mm high.

[assassin]

Who said anything about the HD3000?

The A8 uses a lot more energy than the i3. And produces a lot more heat. You need a large CPU cooler (the Shuriken is popular --- $45) which when you add that in makes it more expensive or the same than an i3 + better gaming card. And you get less heat and less energy used even with a discrete card when you use the i3. Oh yeah, and you get better gaming as well. And transcoding.

And the A8 is not better at idle. My i3 idles at about 25w: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1364084/htpc-k...-with-pics

NVidia can create custom refresh rates and resolutions which ATI cannot. And you are mistaken if you think ANY particular card gets your perfect 23.976 automatically each and every time. This is dependent on your hardware, drivers, codecs, AV hardware, etc. Lots more on this here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333324/lets-s...ently-well

I have been saying this repeatedly --- I just don't get the niche for the A8. I think the A4 is underpowered as well. If you are going to go with the Llano right now I think the A6-3500 is the one to get.

[Dougie Fresh]

The only A8 I would have gotten for HTPC was the A8-3800/3820.

[snowboarder33]

ugh all these topics are making me so indecisive. I keep flip-flopping between the A6/8 vs i3. I want to build this dang HTPC but I just can't make up my mind! (sorry I don't have anything of substance to add to your topic, just wanted to vent my frustration)

[assassin]

ugh all these topics are making me so indecisive. I keep flip-flopping between the A6/8 vs i3. I want to build this dang HTPC but I just can't make up my mind! (sorry I don't have anything of substance to add to your topic, just wanted to vent my frustration)

Pick the one then that gives you the most flexibility and easiest and most flexible upgrade path.

[MrKay]

I have the a8 3820 cpu. and i can play crysis on high settings on 1366x786 plus other new games as well. The good thing about the amd apu is you can play games without adding a graphics card to your htpc. But the problem is it gets hot. So i take the cage of my antec isk 300-65 also i have the small Scythe Shuriken Rev. B. I am no fan of any brand. I would have gone with intel if i was going to get a graphics card tho. But i wanted to play games without a graphics card that's why i went with amd apu. Hope this helps a bit

[assassin]

Can you play on max settings though at max resolution?

[MrKay]

I have not tired on max settings tho also i have not tired on max resolution tho.On crysis i can add blood etc and that's on dx11 Plus i have no case fan only cpu fan on my htpc

---

I did try saints row 3 on high settings but it was to slow but you can play on medium settings tho

[assassin]

That's my point. For anyone really wanting to do serious gaming the A8 or even A6 is just not a good option. It is sold, marketed and touted as an ideal gaming machine by many when really it is not.

We really should caution people that for limited gaming the iGPUs or APU should be considered but really are not options at this point for more than a casual older game.

I think where the Llano really shines is with HDMI 1.4a for 3D assuming your AV receiver supports it and can pass it through.