With WMC Sunset/EOL, is XBMC PVR the Future?

JazJon · 2012-09-05 11:34

With all the doom and gloom over Windows Media Center not being developed further by Microsoft, I'm starting to think of the long term future. I expect to be happy on Windows 7/8 Media Center for while yet but I need to start monitoring what's going on with XBMC my friend just told me about. I'm a long time MCE user. (had the very first XP MCE)

Is XBMC "Eden" the main stream future for HTPC enthusiasts? I'm an active member over the The Green Button forums and would like to start testing/sharing thing myself at some point. I actually just posted to get feedback of MCE people trying out XBMC: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/view...f=9&t=2604

Here's my current setup:
Shuttle PC SX79R5 Win 7 x64 Ultimate Media Center, i7-3820, TWO USB Ceton quad cablecard tuners Comcast, Geforce ENGT440, gigbit ethernet, 3 XBox extenders, 2 Linksys, Slingbox Pro HD, MCE MKV/AVI playback via My Movies/WHS 2011 StableBit DrivePool

Some questions and comments:

-Do all the Dev's here have the expectation that XBMC PVR has the potential to be as rock solid as Media Center?

-Would a 3rd party / open source community such as XBMC ever be granted DRM rights to record protected CableCard content like Media Center can do today? (is it even a remote possibility with Cable Labs etc?)

-Do you expect both Ceton USB and HDhomerun Network cablecard tuners to be supported? (if not both right away, which one first? Ceton XFinity or SiliconDust HDhr?)

-With Ceton developing the Ceton Echo extender, has anyone asked if their box has the potential to work in conjunction with the future XBMC PVR? (or is it too early to ask? better early than late though) I know Ceton are going to have My Movies support for meta data as an option so far.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewforum.php?f=62
I'm heavily into using My Movies as my collection/meta data app, so I'd be interested to know what the My Movies folks think about post MCE life as well.
http://www.mymovies.dk/forum.aspx

-My soon to be new roommate doesn't even have cable at his place and swears by XBMC. I was pretty impressed with his i3 linux XMBC box. AirPlay was built in for my iPhone music and the iPAD/Android XBMC remote control app is very slick too! Now that I'm moving in I'll be getting cable tv, putting the MCE box into my bedroom, and will add my XBOX 360 as an extender in his living room (for now) What is better supported in the coming months? (Ceton USB or HDhomerun prime network tuners?)

Can someone point me to better areas to read what the current state is of PVR? (like change logs, or maybe suggest when the first "Beta" level of stability will be out vs nightly test builds (Alpha? just guessing, only browsed a bit so far)

Thoughts? Links to preliminary success stories or youtube XMBC PVR demo links anyone?

RandomNinjaAtk · 2012-09-05 14:24

Just to answer a few of your questions..

-Do all the Dev's here have the expectation that XBMC PVR has the potential to be as rock solid as Media Center?

I'm sure this is the certainly the goal, but as of right now, it is not. However, the PVR branch was just merged with the main branch. So this should have more attention by more developers, which means that it should be far more stable in the coming months and for the final Frodo release.

-Would a 3rd party / open source community such as XBMC ever be granted DRM rights to record protected CableCard content like Media Center can do today? (is it even a remote possibility with Cable Labs etc?)

No and probably never will due to licensing fees.

-Do you expect both Ceton USB and HDhomerun Network cablecard tuners to be supported? (if not both right away, which one first? Ceton XFinity or SiliconDust HDhr?)

I have a HDHomerun Prime and it is currently supported with an appropriate backend such as MythTV (Pretty sure Centon's are supported with an appropriate backend also). However, it will require an appropriate backend such as MythTV / ForTheRecord / Media Portal for the tuners and XBMC to connect too. (think of it as a client / server relationship) So it will never operate with just a single install of XBMC. Although you could run all the software required on a single computer.

Livin · 2012-09-06 00:27

First, no one knows for sure about wmc since msft is still promoting it with oems. If so future is still up in the air.

Second, XBMC is only interested in integration with permission apps, not becoming one... Which I think is disappointing. This will create massive Splintering and is what has likey been the reason pvr integration has not taken so long... Division of development resources. I'd have preferred to see the XBMC team unite behind one pvr app.

Anyway, what will likely happen is XBMC will lay the ground work and the plex team will 'leverage' it and integrate their own pvr variant... Thus pushing a ton of existing and future users to Plex.

maruchan · 2012-09-06 05:22

(2012-09-05 14:24)RandomNinjaAtk Wrote: -Do you expect both Ceton USB and HDhomerun Network cablecard tuners to be supported? (if not both right away, which one first? Ceton XFinity or SiliconDust HDhr?)

I have a HDHomerun Prime and it is currently supported with an appropriate backend such as MythTV (Pretty sure Centon's are supported with an appropriate backend also). However, it will require an appropriate backend such as MythTV / ForTheRecord / Media Portal for the tuners and XBMC to connect too. (think of it as a client / server relationship) So it will never operate with just a single install of XBMC. Although you could run all the software required on a single computer.

Does this include playback of copy-once recordings? I'm going to assume not, but that's the biggest hurdle for non-proprietary PVRs at the moment.

**spiff** · 2012-09-06 12:09

@livin; okay, we will focus only on <insert random platform dependent solution>. yes. the other platform. the one you do not use. and of course we will mandate that this particular <insert random platform dependent solution> has to run on the device. this means you cannot control your pvr from any embedded device. yes, you will need a monster computer in every room. good times!

what the plex guys does i *really* do not care. a user lost to them is a user we have no interest in. go fear monger elsewhere, i'm sure it will work over at the plex forums. kthx.

RandomNinjaAtk · 2012-09-06 18:59

(2012-09-06 05:22)maruchan Wrote:
(2012-09-05 14:24)RandomNinjaAtk Wrote: -Do you expect both Ceton USB and HDhomerun Network cablecard tuners to be supported? (if not both right away, which one first? Ceton XFinity or SiliconDust HDhr?)

I have a HDHomerun Prime and it is currently supported with an appropriate backend such as MythTV (Pretty sure Centon's are supported with an appropriate backend also). However, it will require an appropriate backend such as MythTV / ForTheRecord / Media Portal for the tuners and XBMC to connect too. (think of it as a client / server relationship) So it will never operate with just a single install of XBMC. Although you could run all the software required on a single computer.

Does this include playback of copy-once recordings? I'm going to assume not, but that's the biggest hurdle for non-proprietary PVRs at the moment.

Only copy-free, I do not have any premium channels and probably never will. I have my own library of movies and etc that act as my premium content!

Livin · 2012-09-07 22:59

@spiff
I simply, and politely, stated my view of the situation - if you saw that as fear mongering then you are easily scared - maybe that is why you are so grumpy? Wink

As for the specific PVR to integrate... I don't have an opinion as I don't know all of the PVR apps intimately. Though, several of them are cross platform (Windows/Linux) as much as to be expected these days (e.g. nothing for Android, iOS, etc)... so I was stating simple fact that dividing X number of resources across 2 or 3 projects would slow things vs X resources on a single project. And maintenance and feature enhancements will also be slower. If the XBMC team decided to back, and lend development skills, to a single PVR app, not only XBMC, but the entire PVR community would have benefited tremendously... thus making both a better XBMC front-end and a better PVR backend.

I mention plex because, as much as I'm not a fan of their 'borrowing' XBMC code and not sharing back (closed PMS), I do find myself in the spot (as many here do - just read the forums) where XBMC's now lacking some key features Plex has (centralized DB, real-time transcoding, etc)... thus, I think if Plex adds a decent PVR it will have a complete package, where XBMC will then be niche and even great skins will not make up for the lack of features.

You don't have to agree... but I suspect if Plex adds PVR, my crystal ball will be accurate.

Swifty · 2012-09-07 23:47

@livin, I think what spiff is getting at is there is no "one size fits all" pvr back end.
I've been using xbmc pvr since its first inception (alcoheca/alwinus days) since then my needs have changed, I WAS using vdr initially, then switched to TV headend for easier channel management.
Since then I have also added a cable stb to my arsenal of tuners, problem is tvheadend doesn't support analogue tuners (like hd-pvr) - but no problem I have the choice to use myth / mediaportal / fortherecord (what I use now).

So in a nutshell, choice is good :-)

**spiff** · 2012-09-08 09:14

(2012-09-06 00:27)Livin Wrote: Anyway, what will likely happen is XBMC will lay the ground work and the plex team will 'leverage' it and integrate their own pvr variant... Thus pushing a ton of existing and future users to Plex.

this was what i referred to as fear mongering. plex are asses. we all know that. but we cannot let that influence what we do in the slightest bit.

and swifty nailed the rest of my point.

we do a media center, not pvr backends. look at myth, that's what you get when pvr people do frontends. now imagine what happens if frontend people do a pvr backend Wink