24p Delay Gathering
#1
A call for Testing

While doing extensive testing for the release of Openelec 2.0, we have discovered some issues that are not clear to us at all wether this is pure hardware or also some software problem.

When connecting htpc setups (nvidia, AMD, e.g.) a strange "global sync delay" when running 24p can be seen. This means that Audio is ahead of the movie by a specific time t > 0. You can easily see this when somebody is speaking. His/her speech is already done, but you can still see lips moving or mouth closing - this is called Lip Sync. In order to work-around this for user affected, we need you to do some tests on different hardware to gather some values, so that we can make it work for everybody out of the box.

We are currently not searching for issues that sync is lost or changing within a movie. To help us, you and your hardware must meet the following constraint:

- Your Setup must be able to do 24.0 hz respectively 23.976 hz
- Xbmc must be up and running (Frodo, Eden, OE, never mind)

Preconditions:
- Vertical Blank Sync must be enabled (System -> System -> Video output)
- Also enable Adjust Refresh Rate to match Video (System -> Video -> Playback)
- Download Iron Man trailer for testing: http://www.hdtv-praxis.de/downloads/IronManTrailer.zip
- Download Tears of steel for testing: http://www.fsmpi.uni-bayreuth.de/~pw/man..._1080p.mkv
- Both videos should be stored locally on the HTPC's harddisk.
- Always watch the movie beginning from the start, if you seek you might lose sync, this is to minimize the variations of the results.

We have four testcases:
a) Play the Iron Man trailer. Your TV should switch to 23.98hz. No follow some dialogs. Use the Audio Offset Slider to adjust the offset so the lips are in sync with audio. Take your time and get it as close to perfect as you can. Write down the offset.

b) Play the Tears of steel video. Your TV should switch to 24hz. No follow some dialogs. Use the Audio Offset Slider to adjust the offset so the lips are in sync with audio. Take your time and get it as close to perfect as you can. Write down the offset.

c) Disable Adjust RefreshRate to match Video. Set your Display to 60hz (System->System->Video output). Start both videos again. It should now run at 60hz. Make it Lip Sync again and write down the offset.

d) Disable Adjust RefreshRate to match Video. Set your Display to 50hz. Start both videos again and make it lip sync. Write down the offset.

How to adjust the audio offset:
Image
Image
Image

We need the following output:
Quote:Xbmc-Version: OpenELEC 12.0-ALPHA6 Git:bbce68b (this is found by going to System->System info, also specify what distrobution you are on, as in Ubuntu, XBMCbuntu, OpenELEC, GeeXboX)
GFX Driver: NVIDIA 304.51
Hardware Configuration: ION2 - Asus EEE Box EB1501P (Fusion E-450, ION-2, Nvidia GT520 with Celeron 1700 e.g.)
Speaker TV Conncection: HTPC to AVR via HDMI and HDMI out of AVR to TV (e.g. HTPC to AVR via HDMI and HDMI out of AVR to TV, or TV directly connected to HDMI while using Optical Out to Receiver)
Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR607
TV Model: Samsung UE40C6715 40" led tv
Xbmc Audio Configuration:
Image
(Just take a screenshot)

Results:
Audio offset @ 23.976hz: Delayed by: 0.175sec
Audio offset @ 24hz: Delayed by: 0.175sec
Audio offset @ 50hz: 0.000sec
Audio offset @ 60hz: 0.000sec

Thank you very much. In the longterm we want to use HDMI 1.3 spec to auto sync between hardware and TV, but for now we want to deliver reasonable defaults by using the given xbmc video delay infrastructure.

Btw. cause of the importance keep this thread on topic: We will silently ignore everything else that has nothing to do with this issue.
Samsung ES7005 55" led tv - Denon AVR-3313 - NAD C275BEE - B&W DM683 - B&W HTM61 - B&W 686
Intel NUC D34010WYK - 128GB Crucial ssd, Built in IR Receiver
And a Logitech Harmony Touch to control it all. https://libreelec.tv
Retired: Asus EB1501P ION2 - OCZ Vertex 2 64gb ssd - Built in IR Receiver
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#2
Hardware: E45M1-Deluxe
XBMC Version: XBMC 12.0-Alpha6 (28 2012) - Fernetmenta Tree
Computer is attached to AVR, AVR is attached to TV both via HDMI
Receiver: Marantz NR 1402
TV: Samsung 40 inch LE40C650L
OS: Ubuntu precise minimal + wsnipex xvba ppa testing
Catalyst 9.0.0
XBMC Audio: DTS, AC3 checked, hdmi

Tears of Steel:
Delay @ 24.0: Delayed by: 0,175sec
Delay @ 50hz: 0,000sec
Delay @ 60hz: 0,000sec

Iron Man Trailer:
Delay @ 23.98: Delayed by: 0,175sec
Delay @ 50hz: 0,000sec
Delay @ 60hz: 0,000sec




First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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#3
Hardware :
Motherboard : ASUS P55D-E
Processor : i7@870
Graphic card : nVidia GT 520
Driver : 306.23
Receiver : Pioneer VSX-921K
TV : Pioneer LX-5090H
OS : Windows 7 SP1
xbmc : 12.0-Alphas Git:20120916-83de8a6
Link : PC HDMI -> Receiver HDMI -> TV HDMI

Note : File is 24.000fps and not 23.976fps, so my TV switch from 23.976 (my usual standard desktop resolution) to 24.000fps, so file is not played at 23.976fps for the a) test. So, in my case, TV switched to 24.000fps and not 23.976fps and file is also played at 24.000fps and not 23.976fps.
If you truly intend to do extensive testing and get as information as possible and be accurate, 2 files are mandatory. This one at 24.000fps, and another at
23.976fps, the two fps are different, you can't consider them to be the same ! Otherwise this testing/experiment has no true meaning.

Tears of Steel:
Delay @ 24.0: 0.000s
Delay @ 50hz: 0.000sec
Delay @ 60hz: 0.000sec

Iron Man Trailer:
Delay @ 23.98: 0.000s
Delay @ 50hz: 0.000sec
Delay @ 60hz: 0.000sec

Audio configuration :
Audio Output : HDMI
Speaker : 7.1
Output Stereo to all speakers : OFF
AC3 : ON
DTS : ON
AAC : OFF
LPCM : ON
THD : ON
DTS-HD : ON
Audio Output Device : WASAPI HDMI VSX-921K
Passthrought Output Device : WASAPI HDMI VSX-921K
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#4
@jpsdr:
Yeah - we chose the wrong sample :-) Currently we are searching a free available one and update the thread. It would be nice, if you could test again. Never the less 24.0 and 23.976 was totally the same yesterday.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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#5
Xbmc Frodo -alpha7
OS: XBMCbuntu (ubuntu 11.10)
NVIDIA 304.51
Hardware: Core 2 duo 2.4Ghtz 3GB of DDR3 RAM NVIDIA GT550ti GPU
Connection: HDMI to AVR from AVR Monitor out to TV. All Lip Sync features on AVR enabled
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR609
Delay at 23.976Htz -175ms
Delay at 50htz 000ms
Delay at 60htz 000ms

Note: with MY OWN COLLECTION this is about right as well except really old rips (mostly mpeg4 avis) have a slightly higher delay as they are barely out of sync with the -175ms setting 200ms usually fixes it but its not enough to really annoy you
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#6
Tested Tears of Steel on Windows 8 x64 with Direct Sound and WASAPI at 24.0hz and 60hz with the following setup and did not notice any lag:

Intel i3 540
AMD 6670 (Catalyst 12.8)
8GB RAM
UN55ES8000
Denon AVR-991 (HDMI out to TV from receiver and in to receiver from computer. Lip Sync disabled on receiver.)
XBMC Frodo 20120930

Before I ran the tests I updated Frodo to the latest (was using one a couple weeks old), with the old version I was having a ~100ms delay while only using WASAPI; after updating the issue seems to be fixed.
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#7
Hack_kid: Could you please include the tv model, just so we can keep track if different make/model does things differently?

I will also remove this post when it's done
Samsung ES7005 55" led tv - Denon AVR-3313 - NAD C275BEE - B&W DM683 - B&W HTM61 - B&W 686
Intel NUC D34010WYK - 128GB Crucial ssd, Built in IR Receiver
And a Logitech Harmony Touch to control it all. https://libreelec.tv
Retired: Asus EB1501P ION2 - OCZ Vertex 2 64gb ssd - Built in IR Receiver
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#8
Is this just for linux based builds or do you want windows/ios/any feedback too?
Reason I ask is because it's in the "general" help section, but you mention openelec so I'm a little confused.
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#9
Xbmc-Version: OpenELEC 12.0-ALPHA3 Git:8dcc7e6
GFX Driver: NVIDIA 302.17
Hardware Configuration: ION - Shuttle XS35GT v1 Atom D510 Dual-Core 1.66GHz, 4GB RAM BIOS 1.0B
Speaker TV Conncection: HTPC to AVR via HDMI and HDMI out of AVR to TV
Receiver: Denon AVR-1611
TV Model: Sony KDL-37EX505 LCD
Xbmc Audio Configuration:
Image

Results:
Audio offset @ 23.976hz: Delayed by: 0.000sec
Audio offset @ 24hz: Delayed by: 0.000sec
Audio offset @ 50hz: 0.000sec
Audio offset @ 60hz: 0.000sec

I can't recognize any delay, I slided back an forth but the 0 seems to be the right position.
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#10
Hardware:
Motherboard:
Asus P8P67-M PRO
CPU:
Intel 2.6GHz 35w i3-2120T
GPU:
Asus ENGT520
XBMC Version: OpenELEC Frodo Dev builds (Build myself)
Computer is attached to AVR, AVR is attached to TV both via HDMI
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR616
TV: Sony KDL-40EX503
XBMC Audio: DTS, AC3, TrueHD, DTS-HD, AAC checked, HDMI.

Tears of Steel:
Delay @ 24.0: Delayed by: 0,175sec
Delay @ 50hz: 0,000sec
Delay @ 60hz: 0,000sec

Iron Man Trailer:
Delay @ 23.98: Delayed by: 0,175sec
Delay @ 50hz: 0,000sec
Delay @ 60hz: 0,000sec
My full HTPC build log:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=129352
Core i3-2120T 2.6Ghz, 4gb Kingston DDR3, mSATA SSD, Moneual 312 Case, GT520 GPU
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#11
XBMC: XBMCbuntu 12.0-ALPHA7 Git: Unknown (Compiled Oct 3 2012)
GFX Driver: NVidia 304.51
Soundcard: HDA ATI SB ALC889A Digital
Speaker connection: Via S/PDIF from HTPC to AVR (no sound to the TV set, only receiver)
Receiver: Logitech Z-5500 Digital (5.1)
TV: Samsung LE46C7502WXXN 46'' LCD

Output: Optical/Coax
Speaker config: 5.1
Output to all speakers: disabled
Capabilities enabled: Dolby Digital (AC3) capable receiver & DTS capable receiver
Audio output device: HDA ATI SB ALC889A Digital
Passthrough device: HDA ATI SB ALC889A Digital
Play GUI sounds: Only when playback stopped

Iron Man trailer:
Delay @ 23.98hz : 0.200s
Delay @ 60hz : 0.000s
Delay @ 50hz : 0.000s

Tears of Steel:
Delay @ 24hz : 0.000s
Delay @ 60hz : 0.000s
Delay @ 50hz : 0.000s
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#12
For information I'am on Windows 8 RTM (exactly the same symptoms with Windows 7) with audio passthrough.

My AVR Onkyo SR608 decodes audio and lets video passthrough.

Xbmc-Version: XBMC 12.0-ALPHA7 Git:20121004-8de9ffd (Compiled: Oct 5 2012)
GFX Driver: NVIDIA 296.43 (official Zotac Driver For ZBOX ID80)
Hardware Configuration: ZBOX ID80 (GPU NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 520M, Chipset NM10 Express, CPU Intel® Atom™ D2700)
Speaker TV Conncection: HTPC to AVR via HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 1.4 out of AVR to TV
Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR608
TV Model: Samsung UE55C8700 55" LED TV
Xbmc Audio Configuration:

Image

My setup always switch to 24hz, don't know how to do 23.976.

For all my movies @24hz (23.XX, 24 or 24.XX) I have to delay audio about 375ms (could be 350 or 400, difficult to say but it's out of sync).

Results:
Audio offset @ 23.976hz:
Audio offset @ 24hz: Delayed by: 0.375sec
Audio offset @ 50hz: 0.000sec
Audio offset @ 60hz: 0.000sec

I think the lips are not the best way to check the audio sync. I prefer the sounds hit like someone walking or a hammer, tennis match, etc.

PS : sorry for my english, i'am French...
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#13
Seems to work well with OpenELEC-Generic.i386-1.99.1 but no audio HD Sad
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#14
Might be better to use the BBC audio sync test video?

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...#pid941056

http://www.mediafire.com/?0m2cx5gxvw6emvw
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#15
(2012-10-07, 14:25)MatC Wrote: Seems to work well with OpenELEC-Generic.i386-1.99.1 but no audio HD Sad

That is because OpenELEC 1.99.1 is based on Eden not Frodo... Having said that if you check the Development threads on OpenELEC there is a Frodo build thread. Smile
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