Replacing my SATA card?
#1
*** Sorry, can one of the MOD please move this post to the hardware section ****


I had built a media server with 36 TB of storage on 16 disks in an Antec 1200 storage. Overall, I am quite happy with it.

Having said this, I am occasionally facing two issues:

1) Sometimes the computer crashes with no apparent reasons and "just" restarts automatically. This happens around 1-2 times per week. Not the worst thing in the world, but annoying.

2) Some of the harddisks are running VERY hot (>50 C) and I have already harddisk failing on me. These are a few years old, but would not have expected. The 8 out of the 16 harddisks that are running hot are (co-incidentally?) the ones that are at attached to a SATA card rather than the motherboard directly.

3) My SATA card does not support 3 TB disks and also I cannot read S.M.A.R.T. info from the disks attached to the SATA card


When I put the components together, I basically took the "best" except for the SATA card, where I "only" spent around $200. Could the three issues be related to the SATA card? Any recommendation on a SATA card if I would like to replace it?
Server: Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel Core i5 3.4 GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | 128 GB SSD, 82 TB (9 x 6 TB, 7 x 4 TB)
HTPC 1: Raspberry Pi 2 | HTPC 2: Raspberry Pi 2 | HTPC 3: Raspberry Pi
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#2
Personally, would say its unlikely to be the SATA card causing your crashes - what card is it?

Sporadic crashes are more likely caused by heat issues or ram issues. Before splurging on a new card I would take a look at heat issues first. You say 8 disks are running hotter, are they all the same type of disks? Are the 8 that run hotter located in a different area in the case with less airflow?

As for one disk failing after a couple of years use, I wouldn't be overly concerned about that - i would say that would be well within accepted tolerance levels.
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#3
Thanks for your quick reply and sorry again for posting in the wrong section.

(2012-10-02, 11:24)prae5 Wrote: Personally, would say its unlikely to be the SATA card causing your crashes - what card is it?

Will need to check what type of card it is. I would be happy if it is unrelated to the card as good cards would get very expensive. While the card does not support 3TB disks, I am ok to live without it.

(2012-10-02, 11:24)prae5 Wrote: Sporadic crashes are more likely caused by heat issues or ram issues. Before splurging on a new card I would take a look at heat issues first. You say 8 disks are running hotter, are they all the same type of disks? Are the 8 that run hotter located in a different area in the case with less airflow?

You could very well be right about this. The 8 "hot" disks are all connected to the SATA card, but that should not impact the heat? They are also all at the bottom of the Tower, which has much poorer airflow. Take a look at the Antec 1200 case and you will know what I mean. Also, the 8 "hot" ones are in different swappable slots (4 disks per each device) compared to the 4 "cool" ones. This could explain as well as each of these 4 devices have a fan inside.

No idea how I can add more cooling to this tower though?

Disk manufacturers should not explain the difference as some of the same brand get hot, while others do not.

(2012-10-02, 11:24)prae5 Wrote: As for one disk failing after a couple of years use, I wouldn't be overly concerned about that - i would say that would be well within accepted tolerance levels.

Well, technically it is already the second disk failing now. May also be related to the heat issue.
Server: Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel Core i5 3.4 GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | 128 GB SSD, 82 TB (9 x 6 TB, 7 x 4 TB)
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#4
IBM M1015 SAS/SATA card is very popular - supports 3+ TB drives as well.

http://www.servethehome.com/ibm-serveraid-m1015-part-4/
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#5
(2012-10-02, 16:25)thethirdnut Wrote: IBM M1015 SAS/SATA card is very popular - supports 3+ TB drives as well.

http://www.servethehome.com/ibm-serveraid-m1015-part-4/

This is looking fantastic. Does it allow to "cover" 8 disks and is it PCI Express? I am confused though why I never came across this card before. What I picked 2 or 3 years ago was even slightly more expensive and the only alternatives out were really expensive (couple of hundreds).

Have these type of cards become cheaper in the meantime or am I missing anything?

I just opened the case and took a look what I currently have, but unfortunately, there is no brand name or other reference to what it is...
Server: Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel Core i5 3.4 GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | 128 GB SSD, 82 TB (9 x 6 TB, 7 x 4 TB)
HTPC 1: Raspberry Pi 2 | HTPC 2: Raspberry Pi 2 | HTPC 3: Raspberry Pi
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#6
They are PCIe 8x.

I bought mine off ebay here in Canada for approx $150 each...apparently they can be found on US eBay for much cheaper, but I didn't want to piss around with cross-border shipping delays, duties, etc. Most are 'server pulls' taken out of brand-new IBM servers - aren't needed and never used.

Not sure what you mean by 'cover', but I am using my 3x units in a Norco 4224. Each card has 2 connectors that run over a SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 multi-lane cable to a 4 x HDD backplane connector - each card can power 8 x HDD directly.

I flashed mine to the 'IT mode' so attched HDD's are directly accessible to the OS - used as a Host Bus Adapter - all RAID functionality removed since I will be using FreeBSD + ZFS. These cards are also compatible with the SAS Expanders.

http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/ti...l#contents

Code:
The ServeRAID M1015 SAS/SATA Controller has the following specifications:
Eight internal 6 Gbps SAS/SATA ports
Supports SAS and SATA drives (but not in the same RAID volume)
Two Mini-SAS internal connectors (SFF-8087)
6 Gbps throughput per port
LSI SAS2008 6 Gbps RAID on Chip (ROC) controller
x8 PCI Express 2.0 host interface
Supports RAID levels 0, 1, 10 (RAID levels 5 and 50 with optional ServeRAID M1000 Series Advanced Feature Key)
Connects to up to 16 SAS or SATA drives
Supports up to 16 logical volumes
Supports LUN sizes up to 64 TB
Configurable stripe size up to 64 KB
Compliant with Disk Data Format (DDF) configuration on disk (COD)
S.M.A.R.T. support
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#7
(2012-10-03, 02:56)thethirdnut Wrote: I flashed mine to the 'IT mode' so attched HDD's are directly accessible to the OS - used as a Host Bus Adapter

What's the advantage of flashing it to "IT mode" and what do you mean by being directly accessible to the OS? I don't plan to switch to ZFS as I am running Win7 (and plan to keep this OS for various reasons).

Also, I am still very confused that my old SATA card does not appear to support S.M.A.R.T. and not more than 2TB drives. Have you seen any card that does not support these two features or may there be something else that I am doing wrong / missing here?
Server: Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel Core i5 3.4 GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | 128 GB SSD, 82 TB (9 x 6 TB, 7 x 4 TB)
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#8
The 'IT mode' works best if you just want cards visible to the OS for a software RAID type solution like unRAID, ZFS, mdadm in Linux, etc...there's nothing getting in the way so to speak between the OS & HDD's.

You can use the HW RAID of these cards too I suppose, but they'd be considered more a 'fake RAID' solution and they also don't have any RAM/cache or battery built into them like the fancier cards. For the software RAID options I mentioned above, however, they are perfect.

The main factor of SMART support, 2+ TB drive support, etc all depends on the chipset used on them. These cards use the LSI SAS2008 chip and have support for all things you're looking for. Older cards likely topped out with features since development on their chipset might have stopped...
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#9
(2012-10-03, 03:33)thethirdnut Wrote: The 'IT mode' works best if you just want cards visible to the OS for a software RAID type solution like unRAID, ZFS, mdadm in Linux, etc...there's nothing getting in the way so to speak between the OS & HDD's.

You can use the HW RAID of these cards too I suppose, but they'd be considered more a 'fake RAID' solution and they also don't have any RAM/cache or battery built into them like the fancier cards. For the software RAID options I mentioned above, however, they are perfect.

So, given that I don't use any RAID (neither SW nor HW), I basically don't need to worry about it. I never liked SW-RAIDS as for the very unlikely case of 2 or 3 disks failing at the same time, the whole things blow up and all 16 disks are history... Also, if the OS drive corrupts (with the SW RAID on it), I am completely screwed as well and need to find a RAID fix for all 16 drives... So, I am living with the risk every day, but feels actually less risky than the SW RAID solutions out there.

Unraid would probably be a good choice, but I really don't want to give up Win7 (for various reasons).

I played a bith with Flexraid, but just really didn't like it. Didn't give me any confidence that it is a mature product.

If you have any thoughts for a very good, mature and stable Win7 based RAID solution, I would be all open for it!

(2012-10-03, 03:33)thethirdnut Wrote: The main factor of SMART support, 2+ TB drive support, etc all depends on the chipset used on them. These cards use the LSI SAS2008 chip and have support for all things you're looking for. Older cards likely topped out with features since development on their chipset might have stopped...

Unfortunately, I cannot find ou what chipset my card has as it does not say it on the card (and didn't come with a box or manual). I did check in the Win7 system settings and the driver says that it is a LSI 3000 series chip set with 1068E store port. Is that any helpful and/or any idea how I can find out more about the card? I don't want to buy yet another card and then find out that the issue is related to something else.

Thanks again for your kind help!
Server: Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel Core i5 3.4 GHz | 16 GB DDR3 | 128 GB SSD, 82 TB (9 x 6 TB, 7 x 4 TB)
HTPC 1: Raspberry Pi 2 | HTPC 2: Raspberry Pi 2 | HTPC 3: Raspberry Pi
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#10
The LSI 1068 is a very common controller chipset as well so that sounds correct. Unfortunately although I have seen newer firmware enabling SATA3 on them everything else indicates that there is NOT any >2 TB drive support.

UnRAID is very popular here on the forums. My personal preference is more a do-it-yourself solution like Linux + mdadm and FreeBSD + ZFS. I don't know about best Windows solution since I've banned MS as a primary OS within the household since 2007. ;-)

You might wanna look at FreeNAS which is a FreeBSD + ZFS derivative which a streamlined GUI, etc.

UPDATE: Apparently you can use drives >2 TB with that controller, but - and its a BIG BUTT - they have to be SAS drives...see here http://kb.lsi.com/KnowledgebaseArticle16399.aspx



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