[jmarshall]

I think what we're moving to is a single view for library + files that shows everything in a unified way.

i.e. you'll be able to browse your filesystem directly, or view movies/tvshows etc. separately or whatever. Separating into 2 scanning processes is part of this.

In this case, all sources are handled in one place.

Cheers,
Jonathan

[The-Boxhead]

rwparris2:
You would be surprised about howe many users who has no idea on what driver or on what folder they have theirs music, videos and pictures. Most media applications today has automatic scans for users content. !
I bellive this is a needed function.

I have been working as a computers repairman for many years. When it comes to windows folder structures most regular user doesent have a clue. They just use their different applications to access their stuff, where the files actually is they have no idea !

I also like the idea about a merged file+library view. There are alott of people who dont understand the difference between file and library mode in xbmc. thats a problem.

[Jeroen]

I think what we're moving to is a single view for library + files that shows everything in a unified way.

i.e. you'll be able to browse your filesystem directly, or view movies/tvshows etc. separately or whatever. Separating into 2 scanning processes is part of this.

In this case, all sources are handled in one place.

Cheers,
Jonathan

+100 for this. I agree with rwparris2 about adding content from within library mode/a future unified mode. It´s the only reason I ever have to use file-mode.

[Gamester17]

I think what we're moving to is a single view for library + files that shows everything in a unified way.

IMO the scanning function needs splitting in to two:

1. Scan local information only (file tags where appropriate, + nfo xml files + thumbs + fanarts etc.) into the database.

2. Scan the newly added files in the database for online information.

Step 1 ensures that all the user's videos are in the db, and all the information is correct.

Step 2 obtains additional info (if the user wishes to have it), and can be backgrounded completely.

I am in 100% agreement with that.

Something similar has been discussed before here => http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=30161

All files should first go into the database, no matter if they can be looked up online or not, (if not they just display the file-name).

I believe that MeediOS does something like this(?), ...I have not used MeediOS myself but I understand that they do not even have a 'file-mode', instead they scan in all file-names into the database and just display the file-name in library-mode if no meta data could be found online by their scrapers, (MeediOS call their 'scrapers' for "importers" by the way, but their purpose is the same as the scrapers in XBMC).

Talking about adding media for instance there are two scenarios I was thinking about.

The first:
- User is asked to locate the folders he/she wants to add. When a folder is chosen, the user could be asked to indicate which type of content the folder contains. For example:

This folder contains:
O movies O tvshows O musicvideos O music O other

The O's being checkmarks
The scrapers are set according to these choices. Anything marked as "other" will not be scraped.

Boxee have removed the "Add Source" option under each section and replaced it with something almost exactly like that with only one "Add Sources" under settings as a single point of adding new sources, with the difference that they only have 'videos', 'audio', and 'pictures' as the options because they eliminate the last step to "Set Content" and scraper as they instead have tried to automate that part (doing so by a more advanced scanning algorithm which try to detect what type of media it in that source, though IMHO not doing a terrific job with this method, but Boxee is still only Alpha so they have yet time to better it).

So if XBMC would do something similar then I think it should have a few more options like you suggest to make setting content easier:
() Adult Movies, () Movies, () TV Shows, () Music Videos, () Music, () Pictures, () Other Audio Files, () Other Video Files, () Other

...and in the future we might add additional genres/subgenres in scrapers and the video library database, see => http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=33710

Again allowing a mixing of file-mode and library-mode in a new view mode which display them mixed together, similar to what Boxee does but more towards XBMC's library-mode with added files that could not be looked up on the internet

Another thing i think would be nice is the "real" dummy options in wizards. Like not even browsing for sources. Instead just do either a "fast" media search or a "slow" search. the slow option would search all available stations (C:F:G:H, whatever it finds) for both video and music related files - when done it will automatically make libraries without any user intervention. The fast option would only search current user "documents" for media files. (on windows platforms at least)

Again, Boxee does something similar to that today, (or at least it tried to do it). IMHO this method is not yet mature enough, so I still think that XBMC should at least give the user the option to specify the content type when adding a new source, that way he/she can try to specify the content as Adult Movies, Movies, TV Shows, Music Videos, Music, Pictures, Other Audio Files, Other Video Files, or otherwise they could pick a "I do not know (attempt to do an auto-detect scan)" option, ...and again in the future we might have additional genres/subgenres in scrapers and the video library database, see => http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=33710

[Jeroen]

Boxee have removed the "Add Source" option under each section and replaced it with something almost exactly that in a only one

Ah ok, I have an invite but I haven't been able to get Boxee working for me yet. Sounds really similar indeed.

they only have 'videos', 'audio', and 'pictures' as the options because they eliminate the last step to "Set Content" and scraper as they instead have tried to automate that part (doing so by a more advanced scanning algorithm which try to detect what type of media it in that source

Yeah I was thinking about something along those lines, like recognizing s01e01 and formatting like that but I can imagine that being tricky.
Considering iMDB lists tvshows too afaik, maybe a first look up there might be able to return info about the type of content before passing it on to a tvshow scraper?

So if XBMC would do something similar then I think it should have a few more options like you suggest to make setting content easier:
() Adult Movies, () Movies, () TV Shows, () Music Videos, () Music, () Pictures, () Other Audio Files, () Other Video Files, () Other

...and in the future we might add additional genres/subgenres in scrapers and the video library database, see => http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=33710

I'm definitely looking forward to that, i would love to visually seperate my movies from documentaries for instance.
A list of options that extensive would soon appear cluttered though imo. Maybe a new listbox like interface control would be nice for that?

[jmarshall]

The trouble with too much "management" stuff is it complicated the user interface. If you start auto-categorizing stuff, then you are going to get it wrong. Thus, the user needs to be able to correct it, and often the correction may need to be done across multiple files. Doing it one by one will be tedious.

The advantage of forcing the user to categorize at the folder level and then assuming it is correct is that it's easier for the user to fix - they just have to organize their filesystem which can be done on the computer/NAS level, rather than from within XBMC.

Ofcourse, we still have to have robust (at least a lot more robust than it is now) scraping and scanning procedures - particularly the detection of new and moved files and so on.

Cheers,
Jonathan

[marlboroman1]

I hope any wizard mode would be optional maybe choose at the splash screen new or existing user or some such. I think bombarding users with option and question is definitely the wrong way to go. There are things that could use simplifying and that's in every one want interest. I think a number of smaller task mangers would be the way to go.

Could the setting of content and choosing of scrapers be circumvented by location in skins with defined movie and tv sections. Having movies default to imdb and tv shows to TVDB the defaults could also be language dependent.

I find that now for the most part XBMC is already very user friendly and it may take a while to get to grips with and you are always finding new features. But you have to remember the route people have already taken before they get here

they have a large digital media collection know how use torrents, news groups and the like. Want be able to play all codecs and containers available have work out how to set up a network. Have scowered the net for the perfect media centre have successfully connected their tv and sound system to a pc or xbox or mac and have mastered linux.

Most people have dvds blu-ray and set top box recorder and may use windows media player quicktime and itunes.

[The-Boxhead]

I do agree with all these comments about difficulities adding wizards. However wizards made it's way to computer applications many years ago, since then it has been a great success and almost every application or OS'es has them. Now a days it's more or less expected.

The advanced users will never see wizards as a good thing, they can offcourse just skip them. However i really think that the average user needs them and xbmc should have the average user in mind.

The genius about a wizard is that the users can perform many needed tasks in an understandable way without to much choices and information at the same time.

To me it's perfect logic with this stuff:
1. First time startup wizards
2. Taskbased wizards for adding media sources, screen setup etc etc.
3. Merging of the file and library view.

Just my 2 cents

[Jeroen]

Any wizard should definitely have to be optional and dismissable with one single click.
They should also not overload the user with options, it should be as straight forward and effective as possible. In such a way that maybe even advanced users would find them useful. Not necessarily because being more easy but simply for being faster. Take something as essential as adding media. If you can do that in once central place, what would be the benefit in dismissing the setup and going into the different libraries, selecting sources and scanning? That would require more clicks and steps. But, like said the user should always be able to do it the way he or she wants.

Something to take into account is that most people that are now using xbmc are more tech-savvy, have in many cases modded their xboxes and more "complex" stuff.
However xbmc is spreading towards other platforms. Now people using it on Linux will often be more computer literate, but you shouldn't underestimate the lack of knowledge with the mass public that are mainly using Windows. So for me and lots of other people that are now using xbmc things may look userfriendly already (and for us, it IS), but that's not the case for anyone.

[Gamester17]

Please read thoroughly through these related discussions:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=37206
and
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=33710

IMHO very important for the future of XBMC

[outleradam]

Have you ever tried LinuxMCE? http://linuxmce.com/

I installed the Beta today. I was absolutely awestruck today when I set up a virtual machine with LinuxMCE on it. The entire time there was a female TALKING me through the setup in a little video window. It was amazing and high tech. I just couldn't get enough of it and it was actually fun to do the setup while she talked.

I think XBMC can benefeit from something like this. It does not have to be much, but as soon as a user starts XBMC for the first time and has no sources.. It would be very nice to have something guide you around and play a video on each screen.

1. Setup video sources
2. Setup audio sources
3. Setup Add-on repositories
4. Setup addons
5. Setup miscellanious features (even if it is a default option, it's classy to give the user an opportunity to make changes) LinuxMCE even downloaded and installed MythTV
6. Inform the user that XBMC will automatically mount hardware that is plugged in

These steps will make the user feel comfortable with the girl on the screen, that she knows what she is talking about and is looking out for them. This also instils confidence in the software alltogether.

I can't find a video, so please take a look for yourself.

Download virtualbox here: http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
Create a new Linux 32 bit virtual machine with 10gig of HD space and mount the ISO you download here: http://linuxmce.com/index.php/download and you can see what I'm talking about. it's amazing

[mikeandjeny]

I tried LinuxMCE a while back, and to make a long story short, my experience was not positive enough to try it again.

However, on topic, I agree that a tutorial or set up wizard would be beneficial. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be that fancy. Or even need to be interactive at all. Something that just popped up and gave tips/directions (preferably with screenshots) to setting up the Library would be fine/good. Not sure how complicated that would be to code.

[outleradam]

I thought I'd take a video to demonstrate what I was talking about. Feel free to skip to near the end.. I think at least a video like the one at 2:55 would be very useful to XBMC's overall user experience. It's a bit lengthy and I've even cut out parts. I like this chick.. The fact that she speaks with a "Tech support" accent makes her even more trustworthy.

I think this is the best experience I ever had with software that doesn't fucking work. I've reinstalled it several times and it still doesn't fucking work. No matter what I try I can't get this fucking software to work. LinuxMCE is a PITA POS... But the wizard is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHkX9KmYNA8

Something like this would be a severe positive to the overall user experience of XBMC.

[outleradam]

I guess I spoke too soon... After my 5th install... LinuxMCE loaded, however I have so many graphic artifacts on the screen it is unusable and my security cameras are detected as floppy disk drives.

[darkscout]

There have been a few complaints that stuff isn't intuitive or that new time users.

If the condition exists that the user folder doesn't exist, pop up a short intro. At least one Skin already does this when you switch to it for the first time (I think it was Aeon). If Confluence was updated with a similar feature it wouldn't be too hard.

"Welcome to XBMC. Your Premier Home Media Center".
"Would you like an introduction" "Yes" "Skip".
Yes: "Here are all your settings, this is how you edit them".
"Here is how you add sources. Would you like to add a source now?" Yes/No
Yes, Video or Music.

And then with the changes to Dharma where after you add a new source it automatically prompts you for content should be enough for most people.



Advanced users can get around it with a simple.
mkdir /home/xbmc/.xbmc/