Frodo and HD standard color space?
#31
Maybe we're just grumpy because the ungrateful users like you (as you seem to come across)

Remember no one is paying anything here and all is done by volunteers
Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting, read this first
Interested in seeing some YouTube videos about Kodi? Go here and subscribe
Reply
#32
You are not a dev Big Grin
And read my post, I was not/am not ungrateful..
I merely asked a simple question initially and was met with smart responses from the devs Wink

Are you suggestion that when a user asks a simple question re: frodo or the future of xbmc that they are ungrateful lol

I'll say it again in case you missed it,
Stop with the childish attitude, I asked a question in the support section for crying out loud Undecided
Reply
#33
(2012-12-01, 02:46)DerekCuster Wrote: You are not a dev Big Grin

You talking to me?


Edit:
Seems you are. You don't know nothing about me.

You did come across as ungrateful and in that case you can expect such comments and you did start to be childish yourself.

Of course you can questions but if you go on and say xbmc has come nowhere you dissing all the work every one here did so basically you are deeply insulting us.
Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting, read this first
Interested in seeing some YouTube videos about Kodi? Go here and subscribe
Reply
#34
Alright de'Nero Big Grin

Yea, according to you status you are a "team member" not a developer for xbmc? If I am mistaken and you are in fact a developer of xbmc then please update your status...

Please Don't ask me to do it though, I'm busy enough with all these requests from devs Big Grin
Reply
#35
(2012-12-01, 02:39)DerekCuster Wrote: Point is though, it looks like there not going to add it and are just getting angry when users ask for it and then become quite tetchy/petty and childish by telling us to code it etc.. It's the most common response from a dev on here Smile

maybe because that's just the reality?

if none of the current devs is interested in doing the coding for you,
you'll have to get your hands dirty and do it yourself.

it's been said thousands of times before, none of gets paid to code,
we all do it for free, for fun, in our own spare time.

if users were to dictate what we should be working on,
we'd run out of devs pretty soon.
Do not PM or e-mail Team-Kodi members directly asking for support.
Always read the Forum rules, Kodi online-manual, FAQ, Help and Search the forum before posting.
Reply
#36
It's sad that this thread spiralled out of control, I was really hoping it would lead to a post-frodo commitment or a patch like the PR that originated in the native resolution thread.

I realize that audiophiles and videophiles are a minority of the XBMC users, but it doesn't mean that the features and improvements they push for doesn't trickle down to other users as well. I don't understand half the features in MadVR, it's mostly mysticism to me, but I can tell that the end result is noticeable better on my TV than what I get from XBMC. I'm not saying XBMC is bad, but there is room for improvements, and the end result would benefit more than the videophiles; me for example Wink

On the audio side we already have an audiophile setting in the advancedsettings.xml that "forces playback of original format, will not down/upmix next song to match current", and I would love to see a corresponding video setting in the future that would allow you to bypass upscaling, colorspace conversions, etc.

My dream feature would be if someone implemented the same features MadVR is using. I'm not making demands, I'm just dreaming.

Reply
#37
See that's a more positive way of looking at it Smile

The reason that HD audio happened was because of one and later a second audiophile that dedicated a huge amount of time to get it where it is today.

If the same has to happen for video there need to be some dedicated devs that can do the same cross platform.
There was a PR but it was only windows and wasn't it the desired shape.
Anything that goes in core needs to be maintained aso it needs to be cross platform to be useful
Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting, read this first
Interested in seeing some YouTube videos about Kodi? Go here and subscribe
Reply
#38
my concern is even if someone did take up development just to submit the patch I think it would be shelved for the same reasons that prevent the feature from being worked on in the first place.

There has to be more to it than simply the time it takes to develop the feature. If that was the only hold up and it wasn't about posturing or sticking to one's guns in spite of the rest of the world... then there would be no such thing as any new features because they all take time to implement.
HTPC Arctic MC101 -- A10 - 160GB ssd || HD-PLEX H.5 - Core i3 2100 - AMD 6450 - 64GB ssd
Equipment 70" Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD -- Onkyo TX-NR5008 -- Emotiva XPA-3 -- PS3 Slim 160GB
Speakers Paradigm Studio 100 v5 -- Paradigm Studio CC690 v5 -- Paradigm Studio Sub12 -- Paradigm Millenia ADP (surround and surround back)
MISC Standout Designs Haven 82 stand
Reply
#39
(2012-12-01, 01:58)azaze1 Wrote: The AMD drivers support studio limited RGB which would be great if I never exited XBMC to the windows desktop to download updates or browse or do anything other than view video. Being it's a PC with a PC video card, I configure the system as a whole to full 0-255 and rely on applications configuration to make adjustments according to their purpose. With external players the renderers can accommodate PC monitors and TV displays where you might expect a 10-foot interface to control media.
I don't use windows on my HTPC. So setting a global Colorspace isn't an issue. I am just happy my TV supports Full RGB.


DerekCuster Wrote:It's 2012 and so far xbmc can not do any of the following in its current official state:
Does not play bluray or bluray menu.
Does not play 3d iso
Does not fully support HD video standards
Does not fully support HD Audio (until frodo is released)
No forced subs
No dual audio out (like ps3 etc)
Etc
Etc
I don't think you understand how open source works...

In order to have support for much of this there has to be an opensource implementation of it. For example, there is no way to play bluray menus in XBMC because there is no opensource implementation, instead users are made to buy powerDVD or whatever that crap is and play it through that. These closed source programs pay for the rights to codes and encryptions.

So, I'm sure XBMC could pay for the rights to many things to bring support, but then they would have to charge users to use it, and no one wants that.

So until someone reverse engineers much of these technologies, we will have to be happy with what we have or you can go and use windows and all the extra crap that comes with it. Smile
"PPC is too slow, your CPU has no balls to handle HD content." ~ Davilla
"Maybe it's a toaster. Who knows, but it has nothing to do with us." ~ Ned Scott
Reply
#40
@azaze1: We consider 2 things when accepting a patch:

1. The quality of the code.
2. The maintenance burden of the code.

Usually anyone that works in this area is prepared to cover both of those, and we don't shy away from getting people that supply good code onto the team so we can take advantage of their skill. Wink

@all: We've stated what XBMC does, and how it does it. There should be no problem whatsoever as long as you configure your GPU drivers and display correctly. Note that doing so means any software running on your HTPC will display correctly on you display.

Cheers,
Jonathan
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


Image
Reply
#41
@DerekCuster

I have no intention of starting a debate or continuing any debate/argument that is in progress, but I am bothered by your assumptions that are based on Team XBMC "titles".

Being a developer or not doesn't necessarily mean someone understands the topic of color space. Nor do the titles under our usernames strictly define what we do. For example, I do more than just things on the XBMC Wiki, but I put my little title as "XBMC Wiki Guy" to encourage people to ask me if they have any wiki related questions.

I don't know Martijn's resume, so I can't tell you what he does or doesn't know, but I can tell you that if he mentions something then it's because he understands that topic, and that what he says can be trusted to be correct. You'll find this is true for just about everyone who's a member of Team XBMC (there's a lot of members, and I haven't met them all, but this is true for the ones I have met).

Even if he or any one else on Team XBMC is mistaken about something said, that doesn't justify the disrespect you've shown Martijn. I understand that this topic has gotten a little heated (and I've lost my cool on the forums before too), but going forward, please keep this in mind. Remember, the first step in getting someone interested in working on something for you is to not piss them off, or piss off their friends :)



@all

In the relatively short time that I've been a member of Team XBMC, I've learned that the members/developers are incredibly diverse. While I think some of the frustration expressed in this thread by Team XBMC members is very justified, in general people should know that one or even a few members don't necessarily represent the group's mindset. Especially when it comes to what ideas are developed and picked up.

I often tell people that they shouldn't really hold their breath when it comes to features that will only effect the minority, but I don't say it will never happen. Far too many times have I been surprised at what someone has taken interest in and developed in XBMC. How many users something effects is simply something that might play a factor in a feature being adopted or not. We typically say these things not to discourage users, but rather to not give any false hope. Nothing seems to piss off users as much as a promised feature that doesn't work out in the end :)

If anything, it's a rough way to gauge how likely we are to have a developer (or get a new developer) who is interested in working on that feature. Developers might consider popular demand when it comes to choosing what they work on, but most often it really just comes down to what they wish to spend their time on.
Reply
#42
(2012-12-01, 02:39)DerekCuster Wrote: Does not play bluray or bluray menu.
Does not play 3d iso

They are things wich are licensed. You have to pay to have the specs, and after, you have to pay fees for each "unit" sold, so, i don't know what can or can't do XBMC with Blu-Ray, but be happy to have what you have for a free player.

After, there is one reality : XBMC is free, and dev do things freely on their free time, so considering that fact, they have somehow the right to do what they want, even if you have prefered they worked on feature xxx instead of feature yyy.Undecided
Reply
#43
(2012-11-30, 11:21)jpsdr Wrote: You seem a little confused.
The standard are the following :
RGB is full range (0 - 255).
YUV, or, being precise, YCbCr is Y (16 - 235) Cb/Cr (16-240) centered on 128 for no color.
So, when converting, you should have :
RGB (0,0,0) <-> YCbCr (16,128,128)
RGB (255,255,255) <-> YCbCr (235,128,128)
Purely speaking, NTSC is a color mode format which concern only analog CVBS signals. When dealing with numeric data, PAL/SECAM/NTSC doesn't exist anymore, you're dealing with things like RGB, YUV, YCbCr and color matrix conversion.

A good start is here, after you can follow other links inside.

Thanks, that was roughly as I had understood it. Except I had the limiting stuff a bit backwards. Thanks for the info. Video playback is not my field of expertise, I know graphics quite well though Smile

Cheers,
Tobias
If you have problems please read this before posting

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.

Image

"Well Im gonna download the code and look at it a bit but I'm certainly not a really good C/C++ programer but I'd help as much as I can, I mostly write in C#."
Reply
#44
But what needs to be done to get the proper signal to my tv set?

Running Windows/Nvidia
Reply
#45
(2013-03-27, 20:08)hybe Wrote: But what needs to be done to get the proper signal to my tv set?

Running Windows/Nvidia

Use this tool to toggle full rgb range for Nvidia Card. Reboot and you're good to go.

http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=83
Reply

Logout Mark Read Team Forum Stats Members Help
Frodo and HD standard color space?0