Work in Progress - Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc

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giaur Offline
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Post: #61
Quote:we don't see a big benefit of it
You can believe me, its really huge benefit for all 3dTV users. There are a lot of people that want to watch 3d movies and there will be even more.

Quote:would probably only require more cpu/gpu which we tend to avoid aiming for lowpower devices
I can't see any increased cpu/gpu load. But, in any case for low performance devices 3d can be disabled (by user option or by default). All of 3d functionality is only gui split and dont touch movie rendering, so I wouldn't expect cpu/gpu load to be dramatically increased.

Anyway, thanks to @pieh and others for good work, I hope it will be continued somehow.
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-26 10:52 by giaur.)
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pieh Offline
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Post: #62
(2013-03-26 01:33)giaur Wrote:  Ok, I only hope 3D stuff will stay maintained, because this is "must have" for users that have 3D monitors/TVs. I think there should be "3d" branch in official xbmc's git repository and it should be maintained (if not included in mainline). There is a lot of good work done and it definitely should not be lost (I can imagine new xbmc version withoud 3D support because there is nobody who can merge 3D with latest xbmc sources).
Great, but statement that 3d is "must have" doesn't contribute anything, sadly ...

(2013-03-26 01:33)giaur Wrote:  
Quote: he doesn't have a 3D TV, so he can't really test what he's doing
I know this makes work harder, but still possible. The rules are known (how to make half over-unde or half-sbs image) and there are many people here (including myself) who can test all stuff.
We need at least 3 things to work on something: motivation, time and hardware - currently I have none. But 3d work is open - community can take over and continue working on it. People already posted few nice additions.

(2013-03-26 01:33)giaur Wrote:  - subtitle depth settings should be placed on sound/subtitle settings window, this option should be disabled if 3d mode is not enabled
check http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1374491

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da-anda Offline
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Post: #63
(2013-03-26 10:49)giaur Wrote:  
Quote:we don't see a big benefit of it
You can believe me, its really huge benefit for all 3dTV users. There are a lot of people that want to watch 3d movies and there will be even more.
maybe we should clarify what each of us understands by a 3D GUI. To me a 3D GUI is some sort of 3D game engine like UI, where you have 3-dimensional objects (cubes, spheres, ...). This for sure will add CPU/GPU load and we don't see a real benefit besides of some more eyecandy that can easily become too much and annoying.
I guess you're talking about a 3D-TV compatible GUI (tab/ou, sbs) which IMO is a bit different. There is ofc a benefit to at least have support for it. If it needs to have support for a z-index is another thing.
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-26 13:28 by da-anda.)
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giaur Offline
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Post: #64
Quote:I guess you're talking about a 3D-TV compatible GUI (tab/ou, sbs) which IMO is a bit different. There is ofc a benefit to at least have support for it. If it needs to have support for a z-index is another thing.
Indeed. Not 3D- rendered models/textures etc, this doesn't make any sense. I mean really flat controls, but with different z index. With no any additional rendering required, the only need is to scale exisiting controls correctly and split (hou/hsbs). For open gl 3d rendering - I can imagine it for open gl visualisations only, not for main gui.
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-26 14:36 by giaur.)
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Turambar Offline
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Post: #65
(2013-03-25 23:43)da-anda Wrote:  I think pieh wanted to give it some more love in general, but he doesn't have a 3D TV, so he can't really test what he's doing. AFAIK he didn't consider it as "stable" enough to create a PR. He also wasn't sure if we couldn't save one rendering pass for now for the whole gui in total, as we don't have any depth information within the GUI nor any real 3D angle. Thus it would be sufficient to just duplicate the once rendered GUI, split it (or pick every second line/row depending if tab or sbs) and apply offsets for the 3D depth on screen. But this would have to be tested.

I've been working on getting this "stable", and I think I solved most (if not all) sync issues. As for the rendering, I really like the way it's done now because it allows adding 3D depth to the GUI. Right now I'm working on a branch to add this functionality, and it's not that hard to change an existing skin to add 3D depth. I also have a few ideas of how to make a plugin that could heuristically add depth to an existing skin.
I understand that if you don't have a 3D tv there is not much motivation to add this feature, but as far as not being able to test this, here is what I do. I don't have a 3D monitor connected to my debugging machine, so I use one of these http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...lasses.png that I found online for $1 with the Anaglyph feature in xbmc.
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giaur Offline
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Post: #66
Yes, anaglyph glasses is good idea for testing. You should only remember, that half-over under 3d-mode resolution is 1920x540 (for active and passive technology) and half side by side is 960x540 for passive 3d or 960x1080 for active 3d screens.

Anaglyph does not cause any resolution picture changes (but, of course there are no valid colors).
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-26 18:58 by giaur.)
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da-anda Offline
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Post: #67
(2013-03-26 18:05)Turambar Wrote:  I've been working on getting this "stable", and I think I solved most (if not all) sync issues. As for the rendering, I really like the way it's done now because it allows adding 3D depth to the GUI. Right now I'm working on a branch to add this functionality, and it's not that hard to change an existing skin to add 3D depth. I also have a few ideas of how to make a plugin that could heuristically add depth to an existing skin.
I understand that if you don't have a 3D tv there is not much motivation to add this feature, but as far as not being able to test this, here is what I do. I don't have a 3D monitor connected to my debugging machine, so I use one of these http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...lasses.png that I found online for $1 with the Anaglyph feature in xbmc.
Nice to hear you're working on it. I'm also glad you're working on some z-index thingy. It's IMO no requirement for a first stable version, but ofc a nice gimmick. When you're working on the z-index stuff I might have one challenge for you. You might know that its possible in the skinning engine to "rotate" a plane in z-axis (no idea how this is called in the engine) - it at least looks visually like this http://xbmc.org/wp-content/gallery/confl...hot004.jpg (see poster on the lower left). Really awesome would be if those transformations would have a depth perception Smile
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Turambar Offline
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Post: #68
(2013-03-26 20:07)da-anda Wrote:  Nice to hear you're working on it. I'm also glad you're working on some z-index thingy. It's IMO no requirement for a first stable version, but ofc a nice gimmick. When you're working on the z-index stuff I might have one challenge for you. You might know that its possible in the skinning engine to "rotate" a plane in z-axis (no idea how this is called in the engine) - it at least looks visually like this http://xbmc.org/wp-content/gallery/confl...hot004.jpg (see poster on the lower left). Really awesome would be if those transformations would have a depth perception Smile

I'll take a look at how at those transformations, I agree they would look awesome in 3D.
Here is what I have so far if anyone is interested (if you have glasses, download full resolution and look at them full screen):
Red/Cyan Anaglyph version:
[Image: VfR1GCi.jpg]

3D Monitor Top/Bottom version:
[Image: XpXGebL.jpg]
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da-anda Offline
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Post: #69
nice - just tried the anaglyph pic and I can see 3 depths layers (background, search+submenu, menu + top/bottom bars). Btw - do skins have the possibility to detect if they are rendered in 3D mode? If not I think it would be good (be it a condition that can be checked or a tag attribute that controls visibility accordingly), because they could add some extra elements that give a better 3D impression (like a fake thickness to some objects, like the menu f.e.).

edit: now also tested the TaB version - I think left/right eye are switched. I at least had to tell my TV to switch them to get the correct picture. By thinking about it - we have to do the flipping inside XBMC in order to have mixed up movies displayed correctly along with the GUI - yikes.
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-26 22:10 by da-anda.)
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Turambar Offline
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Post: #70
(2013-03-26 21:50)da-anda Wrote:  Btw - do skins have the possibility to detect if they are rendered in 3D mode

I don't think they have that possibility right now, but I'm sure it would be easy to add.

(2013-03-26 21:50)da-anda Wrote:  now also tested the TaB version - I think left/right eye are switched. I at least had to tell my TV to switch them to get the correct picture. By thinking about it - we have to do the flipping inside XBMC in order to have mixed up movies displayed correctly along with the GUI - yikes.
Mmmmhh.. maybe different TVs handle that different? Maybe this should be configurable (just like in your tv, we could have a checkbox "switch left/right picture")
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giaur Offline
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Post: #71
Quote:Mmmmhh.. maybe different TVs handle that different? Maybe this should be configurable
In any case, this should be configurable. Some movies has swapped R-L so - to watch them I need to swap left/right eye using my monitor settings. In this case, I need option to swap eyes for xbmc gui as well, without this gui will be displayed incorectly. However, your screenshot is displayed correctly on my monitor, I don't need to change any settings (defaults and the same as most movies I have are correct).

About gui from your screenshot - it's really impressive. My suggestion is to add an option to adjust depth/perspective (or even disable it). For example: 0 - gui is flat, 255 - max depth. Is this possible?
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emal011 Offline
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Post: #72
Terrific idea! Xbmc is a great media center, but when you see a 3D movie and you make pause or want to go to settings, it hurts! XD

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da-anda Offline
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Post: #73
(2013-03-27 01:41)giaur Wrote:  In any case, this should be configurable. Some movies has swapped R-L so - to watch them I need to swap left/right eye using my monitor settings. In this case, I need option to swap eyes for xbmc gui as well, without this gui will be displayed incorectly. However, your screenshot is displayed correctly on my monitor, I don't need to change any settings (defaults and the same as most movies I have are correct).
Wouldn't it be wiser to just correct the movie in XBMC and keep the GUI always the same? That way you only have to change left/right flip in one place instead of two. Not sure if this is easily possible though.
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giaur Offline
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Post: #74
Quote:Wouldn't it be wiser to just correct the movie in XBMC and keep the GUI always the same?
Maybe, but I can't really imagine how to correct the movie? You will need to swap left/right parts (or top/bottom). The only possible way seems to be mirror image, but the movie will be mirrored so it's not good solution. I think this is main reason why every 3D screen/tv has option to swap L-R - you never can be sure what kind of movie you have, how it's ripped and if it's ripped correctly
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-27 09:37 by giaur.)
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da-anda Offline
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(2013-03-27 09:29)giaur Wrote:  Maybe, but I can't really imagine how to correct the movie? You will need to swap left/right parts (or top/bottom). The only possible way seems to be mirror image, but the movie will be mirrored so it's not good solution.
Well, XBMC would have to know the source format, then a filter could simply slice the movie plane and switch positions - at least in theory, but I'm no dev (only poking around in the code from time to time), so I don't know how hard it would be to actually code it.
(This post was last modified: 2013-03-27 18:41 by da-anda.)
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