2013-03-15, 09:38
(2013-03-14, 21:46)vicbitter Wrote: There's the fundamental flaw in your argument... You always need to take into account the software you plan to run on your hardware... This is a fundamental design philosophy of software architecture... Ask Microsoft, Oracle or any major software vendor for that matter.
Yes I agree that hardware do play a part and you do adjust the hardware to what you needs. But that do not mean that I inspect that every software that I will run is working perfect on this specific hardware, there is simple not enough time to investigate all this and you don't have to be cause it will work in 99% of the cases. If there is a new game on the market there might be problems on some hardware yes but it will almost always be fixed.
I know that Im dragging games in to this and I know that that business is a lot bigger with bigger financials(I suspect). But it sets often high requirements(Audio/Video) on the setup it runs on just as XBMC seems to do.
(2013-03-14, 21:39)snowjim Wrote: Like I said my setup in post #9 performs flawlessly (including Bluray content) without any lag or audio sync issues...
Thats great, but its not that great that I need to nestle my way in to individual threads in the forum to find a recommendation. Is it correct that there is about 1 new major version of XBMC every year? That would mean that one hade to do only one recommendation on hardware per year. And if not even the developers can say what hardware it works perfect on, then maybe some kind of voting system where setups with most votes also is the most recommended once. I know, a lot of work but it would speek to more users.
(2013-03-14, 21:56)ixnu Wrote: No problem. I completely understand both sides of the issue. Whenever somebody recommends hardware (esp a team member) they are really putting their neck out and really open themselves up for criticism if it doesn't work out.
I'm being completely honest and telling you that these rigs are incredibly stable and give me great pleasure - however, unknowns could still ruin it for your setup.
For example:
Tweaks (like XVBA) can make a huge difference.
I run a HUP script upon sleep resume - this helped with various issues prior to 2.99.1 of OE
Some receivers have a mysterious lipsync issue when audio is sync'd to display running at 23.976
VC-1 interlaced and TrueHD on MKV (exactly two titles) had to be muxed to FLAC
I have no idea if the optical outs work well - I'm purely HDMI
Do these issues and tweaks mean that XBMC should still be considered beta for my hardware? Hell no!
(2013-03-14, 22:20)artrafael Wrote:(2013-03-14, 21:26)Martijn Wrote:(2013-03-14, 21:23)snowjim Wrote: I would go for it even if it was on a Apple product.
I would instantly leave XBMC if it was only to run on Apple
Ditto.
Thanks, I get that, but even when the setup is so sensitive you think that its a good idé to mix in multiplatform to make it even harder to match? Would not more closed environment recommendation be a solution, for example openElec where the developer have full control over the environments and drivers? How do game developers handles this? Games do demand a lot of both Video and Audio for the most part?
(2013-03-14, 22:49)Zernable Wrote: It's hard to make any hardware/platform recommendations for flawless core functionality for a couple reasons. Core functionality changes for different people. For me and I'd assume most users, the library functions are a core function yet I routinely see people post in the forums who don't use the library. Secondly, any single platform can have differences that affect how XBMC or any software functions. A difference in a bios revision can make a difference. Even within the same line of hardware there can be different chip sets or the machine assembled at a different factory. All these can introduce minor differences that can have an impact on the software installed.
Yes I get that, but XBMC team could decide what core functions is (probably Video/Music/Library), make it rock solid and then let the user decide what parts to use.
Could the multiplatform be a part of why XBMC is so sensitive about the environment it is running in? How do Game developers handles problems like this? Could a recommendation of a more closed environment like openelec where the developer have total control over system and drivers be a solution?
(2013-03-14, 23:32)Begall Wrote: Not only that, but given that XBMC is entirely built around audio/video, the other equipment used along with it is just as important. One person may find that their hardware works fantastically with their specific TV/AVR combination but another person with the exact same box will end up frustrated when the TV fails to correctly fit XBMC to its screen, or their receiver is picky about the audio.
If anyone wants to pick the right hardware for their use case, then they need to do research, not blindly try random combinations hoping for the best.
But how do you research a fully working setup when not even developers of XBMC dear to give recommendations(in most cases)? And If I can´t look at what other users have because of other connected hardware? And add to this that you can choose from 7-8 diffrent environments to run it on, how easy will it be to find the solution that will be giving me the best experience?
I am apparently having a hard time to get this perfect even when I do research on all hardware I buy for PC builds so how would a casual user do this?
(2013-03-15, 00:29)Memphiz Wrote: I agree that a closed hw platform might result in a more general flawless experience. But we would loose all users who use xbmc outside of their living room or who use xbmc just because it is available for some hardware they have lying around. If we wouldmake such an annoncement in our blog (maybe we could test on april 1st) - this would be the blog post with the most negative comments ever.
Haha yes that would be fun to see. I think that the problem here is that users goes from WDTV and BOXEE and when doing this they go from ALOT of problems to miner once and thats probably why they don´t care about the details. Its possible that I´m simple to picky
Its however up to the XBMC team to decide how to develop the product, I suspect that there is a lot of "users" that wanted XBMC for XBOX360 but this was a no go early on. And of course, If you once opend up for multiplatform it will be more or less impossible to switch back, but its still possible to favor a specific setup to make this working perfect while others will work all from okay to almost perfect.
(2013-03-15, 00:29)Memphiz Wrote: I can tell you - macmini (basically core i5 with intel hd4000 used with hdmi - yamaha avr - lgtv) running ubuntu 12.10 with bumped kernel 3.7.7 with latest master runs flawless (nom ag, no audio sync error, no stutter, no whatever). Now you go buy the same setup and it doesn't fit your experience. What will you do? You will blame me for lying (in your eyes). That's why we don't recommend things. Because we can't.
How do game developers do? Yes they often got problems in the beginning but they usually get it working great for most users elser thay would be out of job I think. Yes of course its a big difference between game developers and XBMC development specially financial.
(2013-03-15, 00:29)Memphiz Wrote: So coming back to the topic. I do this boring stuff at work. But there they tell me what bugs they find. Beeing as unspecific as "stabelize the core" from a developer? Do you code javascript or what?
Are you suggesting that I'm a bad developer because I ask these questions? Really? Have we reach that low lever of this discussion? I do code JavaScript but I prefer .NET, not sure what this have to do with the thread doe?
I did not see any point to go in to detail about the problems I got, It was more a general discussion where you could jump in or not. Dont think that I haven't asks/searched for solutions on that problems that I runned in to and some have been solved while some not. A lot of hours have been invested in just that(thought that was clear based on the thread).
(2013-03-15, 04:51)nickr Wrote: Next thing is we'll have 4K TVs and 4K material and people will complain that XBMC doesn't work again...
Okay, so the problem here is my LG 60PK550 TV, my Yamaha RX-V1500 receiver, my Logitect K400 keyboard, my H.264 1080p files, my Netgear router, my Logitech Harmony One remote? And yet you think its a great thing to ad multiplatform as a extra layer of complexity?