[Khivar]

BTW, the fanless talk comes from the Intel press release. Atom D525/D2550/etc. has a TDP of 18W. Intel, ASRock and Jetway have D2250 passive boards. It *sounds* like they mean to make or have a reference design for passive Bay Trail-D boards too. If they can do it with 18W TDP they can do it with 10W TDP. Fingers crossed!

Indeed that would be awesome !

"The "Bay Trail D" line will be available in three SKUs: Intel Pentium J2850, Intel Celeron J1850 and Intel Celeron J1750. These offerings are Intel's smallest-ever packages for desktop processors, making them ideal for fanless and smaller form factor systems for entry level desktop computing. The processors are also ideal for vertical uses, including intelligent digital displays, with the power savings and up to three times faster performance and up to 10 times better graphics than similar products from Intel just three years ago3. Full systems based on these SKUs are expected to start at $199."

I find $199 a little too expensive, $150 would have been great when you see the "competition" available.

Qualcomm snapdragon 600 for < $20. And that outperforms Bay Trail T on power, GPU and is similar in CPU. Besides, it's available.

Do you have a source ? Because on Anandtech they say in their final words :

Code:

Looking at our Android results, Intel appears to have delivered on that claim. Whether we’re talking about Cortex A15 in NVIDIA’s Shield or Qualcomm’s Krait 400, Silvermont is quicker. It seems safe to say that Intel will have the fastest CPU performance out of any Android tablet platform once Bay Trail ships later this year.

It's faster than a Snapdragon 800 here so there should be no way a Snapdragon 600 outperforms the Z3770.

Moreover on the GPU benchmarks, you can see that it is nearly always better and sometimes on par with the Google Nexus 7 2013 edition which has the same GPU as Snapdragon 600 ( Adreno 320 ).

The biggest advantage for me is that this is a x86 CPU and software wise that makes a HUGE difference.

[Robotica]

@kivar: i also used the same review (and other available info) but i had a different interpration then anandtech. And while specs are marginally different, point is that the price is a whole other league.

@ dougie: I've tried 1 cheap arm box but it wasn't even close to my old x86 setup. My nexus is way better and if hardware, xbmc, drivers and OS keep growing, it will be a great HTPC platform. Give it some more time and for beta-testers, really cheap and powerful ARM hardware will be available.

For now, the celeron/i3 is the best choice available. Let's see how things turn out once the new products hit the market. But the announched products, made by amd and Intel, look great for x86 htpc, .

For now, only reason for me to upgrade would be going passive, no matter amd or Intel, without considering arm as dedicated htpc. While I think this new gen of ARM hardware would be good enough, the software isn't close to x86.

[Dougie Fresh]

I think if you like mini-PCs/HTPCs, the future is very bright. As a mini-PC builder, I am pretty excited, AMD, Intel and ARM.

[Robotica]

My other upgrade route would be not my dedicated htpc but my NAS.
A dual-bay x86 NAS to transcode to multiple xbmc clients via upnp. Since the XBMC server stuff seems dead, x86 to get xbmc running with Linux. Gsoc 2013 should give upnp streaming to my mobiles.

This way I can buy myself a faster NAS for $100 and a tablet. this is my most likely upgrade. However, this would still be a Kabini
See toms review why...

[Dougie Fresh]

My thoughts on Intel Bay Trail vs Kabini from my POV as a builder at least what I am hoping, is Bay Trail will be for plain old HTPC -- videos, music, simple stuff and Kabini (A6-5200) will be for gaming HTPCs. I am looking forward to offering a decent gaming HTPC. With mini-ITX that's something I haven't been able to do well yet in a tiny case. A low-profile HD6670 in the E-i7 case worked fine but needed a 150W AC adapter and extra cooling which for some people that's fine but I'd like to offer something, well, more elegant. Kabini mini-ITX is what I am hoping will be the solution for a nice SteamBox without too much steam (pun intended).

[joelbaby]

Intel displace ARM
Qualcomm snapdragon 600 for < $20. And that outperforms Bay Trail T on power, GPU and is similar in CPU. Besides, it's available.

3 Questions:

1. Bay Trail T has TDP <= 3W. How is the Snapdragon 600 better in this department?
2. How much OpenElec development is for the Snapdragon or other ARM processors?
3. Can you run XBMC on Snapdragon 600? Where can I buy such a box? Is it well supported?

[joelbaby]

I find $199 a little too expensive, $150 would have been great when you see the "competition" available.

$139 ...

http://hexus.net/tech/news/systems/60085...s-q1-2014/

[Khivar]

$139 seems good but :

- That's not a full system, you still need to add a DDR3L stick and a Hard drive so the full system will cost >= $200 which is for me, too high priced.
- This is a Bay Trail-M not Bay Trail-D, and even so, it's not fanless which makes it a lot less appealing.

Hope there will be a cheaper model based on Celeron N2805 instead of N2810 which can erase the 2 drawbacks :

- It would be cheaper.
- It has a TDP of 4.5w instead of 7.5w so we could potentially have a fanless version.

[joelbaby]

$139 seems good but :
- That's not a full system, you still need to add a DDR3L stick and a Hard drive so the full system will cost >= $200 which is for me, too high priced.

Not sure about how much you pay for stuff...

2Gb RAM + 8Gb Thumb drive for OpenElec = $$not much.

You say you want a Hard Drive ... You can spend more than $200 on a hard drive alone. So I really don't understand your point.
A hard drive that you put into a HTPC will never be large enough. Drives should be for the OS and applications only.

You can always make a system 'too high priced'.
$139 for a Case, PSU, CPU capable of hardware acceleration, IR sensor, HDMI pass through in all sound formats ... is not expensive.
If you you read the threads about the Celeron 1037U units (eg. x-26) you will see that the fan cannot be heard when it is running.
Fanless is important in a mobile device, but in an HTPC it is quietness which is important.
How big is the hard drive on a Pivos XIOS DS, or GBOX MX-2?

[twelvebore]

Hope there will be a cheaper model based on Celeron N2805 instead of N2810 which can erase the 2 drawbacks :

- It would be cheaper.

I doubt this. I seriously doubt we will see these devices at $100, regardless of which CPU is inside them. You shouldn't kid yourself that if the bill of materials goes down, that necessarily the RRP will go down. There's more to it than that.

[Khivar]

Not sure about how much you pay for stuff...

2Gb RAM + 8Gb Thumb drive for OpenElec = $$not much.

2Gb is around $25/$30 and I will never take a thumb drive for the OS again. It may be good for standalone distributions like OpenElec but the goal here is to have a full OS in order take advantage of x86 architecture. And in this case, I had 2 thumb drives dead in less than 6 months. This way I can have /var/log on it and atime enabled without worrying that the drive will die.

You say you want a Hard Drive ... You can spend more than $200 on a hard drive alone. So I really don't understand your point.

I want a hard drive/SSD for the reason above, there is a sata port, why not use it ? I don't really understand your point either, why take the higher priced hard drive ?

A hard drive that you put into a HTPC will never be large enough. Drives should be for the OS and applications only.

I never said otherwise It is indead for the OS.

You can always make a system 'too high priced'.
$139 for a Case, PSU, CPU capable of hardware acceleration, IR sensor, HDMI pass through in all sound formats ... is not expensive.

Well if you compare it to the "competition" it is. Take a CuBox-i2Ultra, it has a Case, PSU, HW acceleration, IR sensor + transmitter, 1GB ddr3, microSD, esata, optical S/PDIF, is fanless and has a smaller form factor and costs $94.99. Too bad it is not x86 based.

If you you read the threads about the Celeron 1037U units (eg. x-26) you will see that the fan cannot be heard when it is running.
Fanless is important in a mobile device, but in an HTPC it is quietness which is important.

I agree that quietness is more important than being fanless. However you have to agree that quietness is a subjective notion since it depends on each individual.

How big is the hard drive on a Pivos XIOS DS, or GBOX MX-2?

The sarcasm was unnecessary, you just assume I want a hard drive for its big capacity, you assume wrong

[Khivar]

Hope there will be a cheaper model based on Celeron N2805 instead of N2810 which can erase the 2 drawbacks :

- It would be cheaper.

I doubt this. I seriously doubt we will see these devices at $100, regardless of which CPU is inside them. You shouldn't kid yourself that if the bill of materials goes down, that necessarily the RRP will go down. There's more to it than that.

Yes I doubt it too, that's why I said I *hope* there will be a cheaper model. You're right though about the price, "if" they do a fanless N2805 they could even sell it higher than $139 just because it's fanless

[joelbaby]

Well if you compare it to the "competition" it is. Take a CuBox-i2Ultra, it has a Case, PSU, HW acceleration, IR sensor + transmitter, 1GB ddr3, microSD, esata, optical S/PDIF, is fanless and has a smaller form factor and costs $94.99. Too bad it is not x86 based.

So... don't wait for the new Celeron $139 NUC, and buy the CuBox-i2Ultra for $95 in that case.
The NUC is $45 more expensive, but you get a platform which is far better supported in the linux community.
You could even add one of the cheap KingSpec 16Gb SSD's into it which cost about $20 if you want to avoid the removable thumb drive issue.

You say that the cost of a NUC with an SSD and 4Gb RAM is more expensive than an ARM device with 1Gb RAM and no SSD. What is your point?

The fan is a non-issue when it comes to noise, which has been said by many people on here. Look at the x-26 thread for example.

but the goal here is to have a full OS in order...

In which case the NUC is not expensive. Unless you know of a competing device which runs a full OS (which I guess you mean Linux or Win7 - but not Android), and runs XBMC fast on top of the OS, and plays 1080p, and does DTS properly.

[jjd-uk]

Intel have said tablets based on Bay Trail T will be available for no more than $100, so hopefully an OEM can do media player stb for $80 or less once cost of screen & battery is factored out. If that happens I'd see no reason for an ARM stb for media playback given the extra flexibility an x86 chipset gives.

[noggin]

I think what intrigues me most about Bay Trail-D is that they are, according to Intel, supposed to be fanless. A fanless quad-core SoC mini-ITX motherboard with Intel HD graphics is something that would make me very happy.

Yes that's nice but the trade off is HD-2500 performance vs HD-4x00. Easy choice for me. (btw: That Wibtek showcase wasn't passive). If Intel had put in a HD-4x00 they could scrap all their announched low-end Haswell's. Due to Intel preferring to sell higher margin Haswell's above Bay trail ATOMS, they leave some room for AMD Kabini to hit the sweet spot for perfect HTPC's.

*Awaiting mid-october*

Retail availibility? No way, since there aren't even announched mini-itx mobo's that can host Bay Trail Atom. January 2014 seems more realistic.

Only change is a smart OEM, which builds a HTPC board around a mobile Bay-Trail but that would be probably soldered and unlikely to happen.

Have AMD announced HD Audio support under Linux for Kabini boards? If they haven't - that avenue is closed for lots of us looking for a low power, living room HTPC. I resent paying for a Windows licence on a box that will only run XBMC so that it can support HD Audio. It's also a non-trivial extra cost.