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beemarp · 2013-10-16, 23:05

Anyone who has downgraded from Mountain Lion to Snow Leopard...

Did it improve XBMC Frodo performance at all? I understand there are some issues with refresh rate and CoreAudio in Mountain Lion.

I have Ubuntu installed on my Mini as well, performance is good with passthrough audio and adjust refresh to display. But I'd prefer to stay with OSX if at all possible.

N.O.W.A.L.L · 2013-10-26, 13:52

Sure SL 10.6.8. is the best OSX for XBMC. I never downgraded (simply because I never upgraded from SL on my XBMC setup, as every update brings new audio and/or video codecs bugs, stuttering, crashes etc), but I guess you could downgrade by booting from a SL DVD, erase HD from Disk Utility, then clean install SL.

It depends also of your Mini model. Read carefully Apple Support forums before trying it though, if your Mini is a very recent one, maybe SL will have some issues with hardware (because of drivers).

beemarp · 2013-10-26, 19:45

Yeah I've done some reading into it. I think it can be done with a few tweaks.

For now I'm going to install it on a separate partition. I'll post with my results. I'm curious to see if I notice big differences.

Memphiz, if you see this, do you notice any difference in general video playback between Mountain Lion & Snow Leopard? I know it's kind of a vague question...but does it seem to run smoother? I definitely noticed a difference between Mountain Lion & Ubuntu.

VonMagnum · (This post was last modified: 2013-10-27, 18:23 by VonMagnum.)

Snow Leopard works better because it uses Samba, not M$'s SMB which XBMC has never really gotten along with as well (or at all in some cases). Installing SMBUp (puts Samba3 on newer Mac OSX versions) restored full functionality for Mountain Lion (the BEST OSX version, IMO; I've had zero issues with Mountain Lion with the final 10.8.5 and I can't say that for Snow Leopard). Mavericks has beautiful improved multi-display support, but XBMC (official public release) doesn't like it (Eden works, but most plugins no longer support Eden). It doesn't matter much if you use XBMC on things like AppleTV and a Mac for a server. There SMBUp still works fine (although OSX likes to reset its own SMB2 on resets, it seems). Overall, though. The multi-display support on Mavericks for me overrides any consideration for still using Snow Leopard which many Apps current versions no longer support (i.e. I finally updated my 2008 MBP to Mountain Lion a few months ago and now to Mavericks as well which works better on it than on my 2012 Mac Mini). There's a time to move on, and 3 OSX versions is too long to hold onto an old one unless you have to.

beemarp · (This post was last modified: 2013-10-27, 18:44 by beemarp.)

I find it surprising that you've had zero issues with Mountain Lion. I have had countless issues with refresh rates and passthrough audio. Do you run your Mini through a AVR to TV?

And there seems to be an OSX restriction with outputting 23.976 fps. By default, it outputs 24.00. So you will notice some frame drops. I'm no expert on the subject, but it requires some tweaking to improve the issue (I don't think it can be completely eliminated).

Ubuntu, on the other hand, has the smoothest playback I have seen. I've been told that it has to do with better precision in the OS code that allows for true 23.976 (or pretty darn close) output.

Anyway, I don't expect for Snow Leopard to be the answer to all my problems. But as I understand it, it remains the most stable Mac OS for XBMC. And for a dedicated HTPC, I really don't mind being 3 OSX versions behind if it lends to a better HTPC experience.

By the way, I don't have any issues with SMB. I have a NAS that I set my machine to automatically detect and open my share folder at boot.

I guess it really just comes down to what issues you're having. I for one couldn't care less about multi display support. I use a remote login if I need to have my mac mini screen in front of my face

beemarp · (This post was last modified: 2013-10-30, 17:08 by beemarp.)

Successfully downgraded to Snow Leopard.

True fullscreen now works, which I assume will do positive things for my video playback. But one issue I noticed is that the menu animations are now pretty choppy and there seems to be input lag from my keyboard.

Any idea what may cause this? Menu animations are smooth with "fullscreen window instead of true fullscreen".

Memphiz? Is your true fullscreen working without issues on Snow Leopard?

**Memphiz** · 2013-10-30, 17:17

True Fullscreen shouldn't be used if you don't have to. Also it is broken from 10.7 onwards and will likly be removed by us when we got rid of SDL. Problem lies in one of our dependend libs. I never use true fullscreen and i doubt that it will do anything with your video playback. Most people wanted true fullscreen because other apps pop up above XBMC.

But imo those are rare use cases.

But its really funny - now that i start diving into Mavericks 10.9 because everyone yells at us that xbmc is broken like hell on that - users start finally listening to us and bug us about 10.6.

Its always the same - we devs are on the wrong place to the wrong time by definition Wink

**pecinko** · 2013-10-30, 17:35

(2013-10-30, 17:17)Memphiz Wrote: But its really funny - now that i start diving into Mavericks 10.9 because everyone yells at us that xbmc is broken like hell on that - users start finally listening to us and bug us about 10.6.

Your work is much appreciated. There's lot to like about 10.9 and I believe it will eventually take 10.6.8 place. All users will without a doubt migrate to 10.9 as soon as current problems get solved.

beemarp · 2013-10-30, 17:43

OK thanks for the tip, I'll just not use true fullscreen.

I'm not in a rush (nor was I ever) to upgrade to 10.9, although I'm glad to hear there is hope.

My Mini came with Lion. I wasn't a fan, so I tried Mountain Lion when it was released. Still unreliable. So I recently figured out you could downgrade the '11 mini to Snow Leopard with a "hack".

Anyway, Snow Leopard actually runs faster than ML for me. Once Mavericks gets sorted out with Remote Buddy & XBMC, I will upgrade.

beemarp · 2013-10-30, 20:15

Looks like an update for Remote Buddy just got released today...FYI for anyone who uses it. http://www.iospirit.com/blog/

monobaco · 2013-10-31, 13:53

Ok, i realize "new is better" ( i dont think so, but...)

Many users (like me) with a mac mini 2007, cant upgrade, so, will xbmc be like apple and forget users like me?

Thanks in advance.

beemarp · 2013-10-31, 15:17

I don't think there are any plans for XBMC to abandon Snow Leopard users for the foreseeable future. It's the most stable Mac OS right now....that would make zero sense.

Junior Mint · 2013-11-03, 01:35

My Mac Mini which is attached to my TV is running 10.6.8 and I'm never upgrading it. I'll run 10.6.8 until the Mini dies.