[Dougie Fresh]

I really want some Haswell R series mini-ITX motherboards to become available.

[MrCrispy]

NUC is a pretty popular build. I will look at the new Haswell NUC. There are 2 options :-

2. D34010WYK (http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/n...10wyk.html) - $289
Core i3-4010U

build 2 - $275
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/ecrispy/saved/2Bvs
Core i3-4130, a nicer case

I chose these Haswell cpu's because power consumption at idle should still be very low, and they are more powerful. The case is bigger but not too much. You lose some nice things like front panel USB 3.0. Everything else (having to add wifi/BT, memory, ssd) is same.

Of course NUC also comes prebuilt and is easy to put together. But it really doesn't seem like such a great value as I thought it'd be, unless size is so important.

The D34010WYK is more than enough for a competent HTPC. No need for the i5. Other forums see the i5 and people say HTPC ... but its a waste of money buying it for that purpose. I will buy a D54250WYK as a main PC (with main storage moving to a NAS)... reason for this is the NUC will pay for itself in power consumption within 18 months compared to my current PC which draws about 350W.

I save 300W power with NUC. 300W x 10 hours/day x 25cents per kilowatt x 365 days = $273 saved in electricity costs.

You mention low power... and choose the i3-4130 (a 55Watt TDP) in your build. You should really select the i3-4130T which is 35W, if you want a low power choice. Neither of these are at the level of the NUC chip which is 15W TDP.

Then... there will be the Forest Canyon NUC which will be using a 7.5W TDP chip and have room for a 2.5" SSD, and only cost $140.

So in answer to your question... Yes the NUC is really worth it.

I think Intel are surprising people with how low the power consumption is on their new chips, and that the cost of the newer generation NUCs is actually lower than the original ones.

Thanks, very good points. As I mentioned in my post, I chose the 4330 and not T variant because both have the same power draw at idle, but the 4330 has more headroom and less limitations. Even if you run a cpu intensive task, the 4330 may do it in less power because it will finish faster.

I also plan to replace my desktop pc with a SFF, maybe NUC, once my home server is built.

The Bay Trail NUC - http://liliputing.com/2013/09/139-intel-...p-way.html

If it does have wifit/BT included at that price, its a great value.

[Dougie Fresh]

Good points but not quite accurate. At the low-end of usage (idle, playing video, etc.) the i3-4130 and i3-4130T have the same power usage. Even the i7-4470. It's only at the high-end where the T is limited by its TDP (a measure of maximum HEAT output, not power usage) where there's a difference in power usage.

TDP is not a measure of power usage. It's a measure of cooling power needed to keep the CPU from reaching it's maximum design temperature. It's also a measure at maximum load, which for HTPC usage is seldom if ever seen. You cannot even compare the TDP of different CPU lines to guess at power consumption between two models (e.g. i3-3327U vs i3-3225).

A 54W TDP CPU does not use 54W. In my measurement of an i3-3225 system, video playback was more like 30W with a maximum usage (Prime95 FFT) of around 70W.

[BLKMGK]

Sorry if I came off harsh Kib, was quite early in the morning and I thought the Haswell bend was more obvious.Editing the top post ought to solve any confusion.

Joelbaby what PC are you running that draws a steady 300watts that can be replaced by a NUC?! Have you actually measured it at that high a rate? Most PC idling aren't that bad I'd wager unless they have a couple of soul sucking video cards onboard. I've got a decked out Ivybridge that I don't think sucks near that and it's on 24X7. I think you're payback won't be quite that quick although the price of juice is pretty high so saving power makes sense. Is that machine heavy duty or really old?

The GiadaPC looks nice but a search on NewEgg, which they list as a vendor, turns up no hits for that model - same with Amazon.

The Brix box looks pretty sweet but the USB config isn't ideal. No IRDA onboard and it looks like just two USB front and rear? So, KBRD, Mouse, IRDA receiver - something has to pug in up front. Not a biggie really and it does have BT onboard that might work for a wireless keyboard or remote.

I'd really like to understand the differences between HD5K graphics and the others. I'm trying to find something somewhat future-proof if possible. Bitstreaming audio is a huge one, decent speed since I compile from source, multiple cores, silence, low power and heat, and graphics that can handle 4K video panels. I might play emulated games eventually but nothing intense I don't think, this would be an upgrade from an Atom 1 anyway so no chance even an i3 wouldn't be WAY faster lol. I don't think I want to build this as I want something that many others will choose and can help one another. I don't think I want an i7 but an i5 would be fine, maybe an i3. I try to look to the future so probably an i5 unless cost differences are prohibitive. I need 2x of whatever I chose too :-(

[noggin]

The Brix box looks pretty sweet but the USB config isn't ideal. No IRDA onboard and it looks like just two USB front and rear? So, KBRD, Mouse, IRDA receiver - something has to pug in up front. Not a biggie really and it does have BT onboard that might work for a wireless keyboard or remote.

Yep - I guess many HTPC users won't be using wired keyboards and mice - and instead will use Bluetooth (and this can be on-board) or wireless (often a single USB dongle shared between keyboard and mouse - or integrated keyboard with trackpad)?

Not sure I know anyone using IRDA for remote control either - haven't seen an IRDA dongle for years (had one for an old Ericsson mobile phone - and I think one of my PDAs might have had it in the 90s). Most IR stuff these days uses Consumer IR (38kHzish) stuff doesn't it?

Integrated IR is a great boon for HTPCs though. Didn't realise how much until I installed a CIR module in my Acer Revo. I now have no external USB connections at all. GigE, HDMI and Power. That's it. Remote power on is a great boon.

---

At this tage it's not even clear to me that LIRC will support the IRDA receiver - I sure hope so!

Isn't it a CIR receiver rather than IRDA? If so it is highly likely it will look like to OSs and apps like other Intel CIR receivers (which are optional on a number of Intel motherboards) I suspect?

Wouldn't be at all surprised if it appeared as an RC6 receiver - as other CIR devices do - and worked out of the box with a Windows Media Center remote? (Same as the CIR header on my Revo)

Interesting - there has been some talk about CEC support (possibly using an optional module?) on the new NUCs as well. CEC makes Raspberry Pi really quite neat (as with CEC you can use your TV remote to control your XBMC install, with the TV's remote receiver sending remote commands down the HDMI's CEC connection. For some reason most PC GPUs don't support the CEC pin)

[BLKMGK]

We may be talking past one another on infrared - IRDA to me is a generic term for infrared comms - remote controls etc. but it does look like CIR may be a more accurate term. In short - I'm looking to use an infrared remote like most devices use. Not quite ready to step up to a BT type remote as so far I've not found one I like. Most all of my keyboards are wired too - having to put batteries in keyboard and mouse sux. I do have a trackpad type deal or two around the house and one is used with my bedroom HTPC however it also has a wired keyboard which is what I use for anything but the most simple of tasks - likewise a wired mouse. Hopefully their infrared setup appears as a generic device and LIRC picks it up on the NUC but having been burned by funky devices in the past I won't assume.

CEC might be nice but only if the other devices comply yes? My stereos comply but only one of my TVs and that one is only partially compliant. A friend's TVs is the same way and has issues with a CEC device they use. It seems not all manufacturers have gone the same way on that My TV remote might not be ideal for XBMC either although truly I just need a few buttons for navigation and menu movement.

I do think I'd like a NUC but availability is a problem still and the new Brix looks to be a contender. Both lines of devices look to be WAY smaller and much more powerful than what I'm already running so hopefully I can't go wrong with either of them. I need to research the differences between the HD 5K and 4K series video hardware. The differences aren't clear to me and may not beworth sweating.

[solamnic]

Major difference between the 2 models ( ivy/sandy and haswell) is the ability of haswell to play near flawlessly 24 p material...
Also the cir and sata port is a great ++ for some of us...

I m looking forward for the new haswell nuc ( the model were a sata hd drive can also be installed) in order to replace my downloader and my trusty arctic mc001 ...

This one
http://missingremote.com/news/2013-10-16...rive-mount

[joelbaby]

http://missingremote.com/news/2013-10-16...rive-mount

Perfection! That would be the best NUC.

[noggin]

We may be talking past one another on infrared - IRDA to me is a generic term for infrared comms - remote controls etc. but it does look like CIR may be a more accurate term.

Ah - I always take IRDA to mean something that is IRDA compliant (as it's a formal Infra Red standard). It has been used for remote controls (some cable boxes in the UK used it in the past) and causes all sorts of problems if it is, as it is totally incompatible with CIR (which is a very different standard - usually RC5 or RC6 but others are also around)

Didn't want people to think that the NUC was IRDA rather than CIR (as otherwise they might buy a CIR dongle they didn't need)

In short - I'm looking to use an infrared remote like most devices use. Not quite ready to step up to a BT type remote as so far I've not found one I like. Most all of my keyboards are wired too - having to put batteries in keyboard and mouse sux.

I have a number of wireless keyboards. My main HTPC (home build i5-3570K) is usually used with an Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple Wireless Mouse. Both have Apple-badged Sanyo Enerloop batteries in them (not cheap - but very good quality and they hold charge very well when not in use). They only need charging very occasionally - but are usually left switched off and most navigation is via a standard MS IR remote.

I also have a generic 2.4GHz no-brand keyboard+trackpad combo. This is for use with other stuff I play with - Raspberry Pi etc. - and I think I've changed the (disposable) batteries in it once.

I do have a trackpad type deal or two around the house and one is used with my bedroom HTPC however it also has a wired keyboard which is what I use for anything but the most simple of tasks - likewise a wired mouse.

I have an Apple wired keyboard (which also has a USB 2.0) hub in it so you can plug a USB mouse into it and only use one socket. Which I use if I need a cabled connection - only use it occasionally and don't leave it plugged in.

Hopefully their infrared setup appears as a generic device and LIRC picks it up on the NUC but having been burned by funky devices in the past I won't assume.

Suspect it will appear as a Windows Media Center IR receiver and work with a standard Media Center RC6 remote - just as the TSOP CIR in my Revo does.

CEC might be nice but only if the other devices comply yes? My stereos comply but only one of my TVs and that one is only partially compliant. A friend's TVs is the same way and has issues with a CEC device they use. It seems not all manufacturers have gone the same way on that My TV remote might not be ideal for XBMC either although truly I just need a few buttons for navigation and menu movement.

Yep - CEC is annoyingly poorly supported. Sony and Panasonic both seem OK though - as do Onkyo. Plugging my Pi into my Sony TV I get enough control from the TV remote to be useful - though you quickly miss some of the buttons. Good for basic use though. And free.(!)

I do think I'd like a NUC but availability is a problem still and the new Brix looks to be a contender. Both lines of devices look to be WAY smaller and much more powerful than what I'm already running so hopefully I can't go wrong with either of them. I need to research the differences between the HD 5K and 4K series video hardware. The differences aren't clear to me and may not beworth sweating.

I guess the only difference in video terms could be de-interlacing quality - as the 5000 may have more processing available for that - but that might only be apparent outside of XBMC - as I'm not sure it uses all the de-interlacing options in some video cards (and not all of them are available under Linux?) Similarly GPU-assisted scaling may be better with the high-end Intel gfx, but not sure how much of this XBMC uses either.

I think for basic 4:2:0 H264/VC-1 decoding of progressive content there isn't likely to be much difference?

[MrCrispy]

Major difference between the 2 models ( ivy/sandy and haswell) is the ability of haswell to play near flawlessly 24 p material...
Also the cir and sata port is a great ++ for some of us...

I m looking forward for the new haswell nuc ( the model were a sata hd drive can also be installed) in order to replace my downloader and my trusty arctic mc001 ...

This one
http://missingremote.com/news/2013-10-16...rive-mount

I guess it's better to wait till Jan then. Both the Intel NUC and Brix II will we out by then. I wish Intel would make the Haswell R boards cheaper and available to system builders, since they are very good value and have Iris Pro graphics.

[Platypus2]

Why Jan? The nuc should be out by the first week of November...

[BLKMGK]

From the sounds of it the newly released NUC will do me just fine and though I might be able to piece something together cheaper myself this thing seems to check all the boxes. The upgraded video doesn't sound like it's that big a deal but 24P playback and THD bitstreaming that won't have issues (fingers crossed) appeal. Pricing out small cases and CPUs and mini Mobo I think I could come close to beating it but from the looks of it many people are going to jump on this little box and can all work together. For me the slightly larger box doesn't offer much as I'll be using an SSD of some sort no matter what and the small NUC can handle the really tiny card based SSD. All of my media comes off of a central server so for me at least the added space allowing cheaper more spacious drives doesn't matter. I am not going to pull the trigger though until shops actually have them in-stock, pre-ordering at what looks to be elevated prices makes no sense to me. When Newegg can ship one out of inventory then I'll know it's available lol. It does sound like Haswell is the way to go though from what I've read in other threads, my box will go Linux for sure if anyone cares.

P.S. My solution for boxes to do tasks like run an SQL database, download files, etc. has been to setup an ESX server. It's not cheap to start but this has allowed me to consolidate quite a bit of hardware, learn a bunch, and be able to quickly roll back stupid changes I occasionally make or break. Not for everyone but the software is free and has provided me a great deal of flexibility - the system also houses my NAS etc. Prior to this I had multiple Atom powered machines around and breaking things meant pain and effort that happens to a much lesser degree now.

[MrCrispy]

Why Jan? The nuc should be out by the first week of November...

Because of the Gigabyte Brix, and also wait for some reviews. But if there's a good sale price for holidays on the new NUC, I'll pick it up.

There is also a new Bay Trail NUC coming early next year for <$200.

[Platypus2]

Ah ok, yeah Bay Trail is worth waiting for if you after something a bit less powerful and a lot cheaper.

Be surprised if the haswell ones went on sale in Jan though, or the Brix has any effect on the price but suppose it can't hurt to wait and see

[javiertoti]

I want a Intel NUC to play all kind of HD content (Hi10p included). Should I go for a i3 NUC or better wait for any new specific model like Haswell D54250WYK?

THANKS.