(2013-10-25, 15:00)vinonfire Wrote: Martijn; your attitude towards users simply asking what's up and if there's a solution is terrible. If you are an XBMC dev, the team should seriously question your ability to address users on the forum sporting a "Team XBMC" title.
It's obvious you don't like Apple/OSX/it's users, but the fact of the matter is that XBMC has a large OSX userbase. You could treat your users a bit more friendly. If you were my employee I'd fire you on the spot.
Furthermore, your arguments make zero sense. Mavericks was announced back in june, with Apple providing a bunch of developer previews. You could have had four months worth of preparing to prevent this issue. I have not met a single OSX dev (and I know a 'few') who didn't test their software on Mavericks before the release this week. Blaming Apple for breaking XBMC is just plain stupid imho.
That XBMC currently has issues is fine and it's great that the team is aware and working on a solution. The only reason I wanted to react is the way you are communicating with your users, which frankly is appalling.
You again mix up company work with open source. It is my free time. I like snow leopard. I use snow leopard on all of my macs and have some other installations up to 10.8 (yeah for deving purposes on XBMC). What or who is telling me to bump any of my boxes to 10.9 just for varification if xbmc is still working? I never install osx versions after they are out for some time to be sure that there are no issues for me (meaning the other applications i am using for beeing productive).
You ever thought which effort has to be taken to support so many different os versions? Imagine how a common XBMC osx devs environemnt looks? (you need one ios device on each major ios version we support. 4.x, 5.x, 6.x, 7.x - counts up to 4 idevices ... then you need an atv2 for each supported ios version we support - another 4 devices - same again for osx versions 10.6, 10.7, 10.8 and now 10.9 - counts up to 4 now). With those 12 devices you know have to ensure that everything is working fine. When a new OS version comes out you need to decide either to buy a new device - or which os version to update and loose an older os version. Whenever apple throws out ios/atv2/osx updates you have to make those decisions. And know imagine how much time you need in your free time to just install all those versions and maintain a development environment for each (which is Xcode and counts up to Xcode 3.x, 4.x, 5.x - wohhaaaa). I don't look for pity here. Its just that you guys need to understand the effort which has to be taken - without even writing a line of code - just logistics. Testing new features from someone else already is time consuming as hell if you want to ensure that it doesn't break on any of those os versions.
Of course we can and will drop outdated os versions in support (after gotham this will be osx 10.6 and ios 4.x at least) - but then we will have to deal with users using those old versions again - which will tell us how stupid we are in not supporting them anymore.
So if you want to blame me - fine. You can of course - you think i am unprofessional - well of course i am - this is my hobby! I have to be professional the whole day in may normal job.
For clarification. I have installed 10.9 on my macmini now - but thats all i had time for. So i didn't even fire up XBMC yet nor was i able to verify if i can compile XBMC on 10.9 yet. So as sad as that story is with our huge osx user base (i have seen the stats - osx users are a minority atm - just fyi). We have very very very very limited dev power on osx. So i agree that we should have posted a warning. But tbh - amet here already fixed mavericks startup in mainline. The problem was solved already.
The problem is that 12.2 doesn't have that fix - so granted someone should have thought of this. Nobody of us did. Human fail...
I mean its not the first time something like this happened - it happend on atv2/ios aswell and it happend on 10.8. Just accept it and just don't treat us as a company with employees you want to fire or whatever.
If we are on the forum we act like personal indeviduals. We shit on each others the same way users do at us. If i was a user i just would quit using XBMC instead of pulling my hairs out. This is up to you - but no - you decide to cry and treat us as idiots. Your decision - but then again you have to take the responses.
So everybody in here - go out - grab a geocache, coffee, beer or a girl and be fine for a while in real live. Am i allowed to do this now? Yes i am - free persons rule ...
