[aaronb]

Open source doesn't necessarily mean a solution is more available, open source can also mean "no one is getting paid to maintain this so your problem will go unsolved, and when you ask about it online someone will just tell you to code it yourself and/or make a snarky comment about asking for your money back". Or it can mean it gets solved but you need more technical skills than you have or want to acquire to implement the fix for yourself (so many long nights back in 2004-05 trying to compile from source and/or edit config files to get something working in MythTV). Some open source projects are great and have an active community of helpful users and occasional contributors that can help fix things. Others not so much. All else equal I don't think I'd ever choose between two pieces of software based on open or closed source alone. Sometimes it's nice to just pay for something and get support because you're now a customer.

[steve1977]

Agree that this should not be a general statement that opensource is better. I would actually go and use PMS if it was developed by Apple or someone alike (knowing though that they would never do something alike). Just comparing XBMC/MBS with PMS, the answer is very very easy - the huge XBMC community and knowing that it will be around for the next decade is what wins this by far. If you see what happened with boxee, you know why PMS is not a viable option.

[aptalca]

Just a comment on whether open source is better or not.

Sure open source has its many advantages, but sw developed by a for-profit company with a large community also has its advantages over open source for the end user.

When I report bugs for xbmc, half the time the response I get is "no dev is interested in that feature at the moment". And sometimes it is the "go code it yourself" (ie. any bug related to mysql is largely ignored at this point even though it is still the official and most common way of linking multiple boxes in the latest stable)

However when I report bugs to plex, most of them get fixed shortly as they have full time paid employees with incentives to make sure that the latest stable is free of that bug regardless of whether they themselves care about that specific feature or not.

Full disclosure, my main htpc is still sporting xbmc mainly due to a) amet's subtitles addon, b) Cinema Experience, and c) PseudoTV

All other boxes have been replaced with rokus running plex, netflix and amazon instant prime

All mobile devices are also running plex and netflix

trakt.tv takes care of syncing the watched status on the two systems

I really like xbmc and what it stands for, but lately I see myself moving over to the plex world more and more (I think the server/client structure, combined with transcoding capability allowing for lean clients running on devices' native code is to blame)

[natethomas]

For the record, mysql was never the official way to link boxes. It was an option provided because we didn't have anything better. It's far too difficult and prone to failure to be an official XBMC method.

Beyond that, I think no one denies XBMC's approach to multi-client hasn't been much of a winner over the past couple years. It's why the XBMC 14 focus is going to be angled so far in that direction.

[WayneFlix]

There are comparable. Advantage of the MBS Roku client is that the development is more active and they really listen if you have some feature or bug requests for the Roku client.

And separately, integration MBS/XBMC is much better compared to PMS/XBMC. MBS will deal with all your metamanagement, while in the PMS world, this is closed only for Plex client and cannot be easily used with XBMC.

Thanks for this. Spent the weekend looking at Media Browser 3, between coughs and being ill that is. It is a nice product. The iOS app works better than the Plex App, in my opinion. I think the navigation of the Roku app will be better for my Autistic Stepson. So integrating that there.

Will look into XBMC integration over the next week. However XBMC might just end up as something to tinker with on my own PC and a single Raspberry Pi. Probably going to put Roku devices in the bedrooms.

[PatrickBateman]

For the record, mysql was never the official way to link boxes. It was an option provided because we didn't have anything better. It's far too difficult and prone to failure to be an official XBMC method.

Beyond that, I think no one denies XBMC's approach to multi-client hasn't been much of a winner over the past couple years. It's why the XBMC 14 focus is going to be angled so far in that direction.

This would be nice to see.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) we have all recently upgraded our IOS devices over the holidays and subsequently lost all interactivity with our main HTPC server (no xbmc on iOS or any way to communicate (in a user friendly way) with the xbmc library)

I started a thread about it, Martin got a little excited and closed it after only 2 posts. I asked if we could investigate adding upnp to the official xbmc app, allowing us to view the media/library in the official xbmc app, and then play it via upnp in the app.

As all this would require is upnp and a player I see no reason (other than time/difficulty) in this being done as these apps already exist individually on the App Store (players/upnp players/xbmc remotes) I know we can't have xbmc on iOS but at least lets investigate allowing iOS users to communicate with the library via alternate methods (upnp)

Now, after testing £30 worth of apps, none of them were user friendly enough for the wife and kids. They don't offer metadata, and/or easy access to the library or simple navigation.

This means all new iOS devices (air/5s/5c/mini retina etc) and all non jail breakers are without xbmc or anyway to really even communicate with the library xbmc is hosting... It also means that a solution to my problem exists over there at plex.

Now I will say, it was with absolute reluctance that I tested the app, but it frustrates me in trying to understand why can't we do this or something similar with our app and upnp?

Why can't we add upnp to the official remote or commander or constellation and play the items hosted by xbmc on our devices in VLC, an open source player, a separate app, or a built in player... Whatever. Even allow me to "send to" an iOS device that is currently running the xbmc app and advertising it's self via upnp/airplay/whatever...

I don't want to move over to plex, as I love the community and xbmc, but i finally hit a point where xbmc was completely unusable for me except on the local machine it was installed on.

With the way Martin slams his ban hammer/attitude around too, I feel like we can't converse about these types of topics Either due to his "personal" views on the topic. I know we don't want spam threads with shit, but surly discussing things is good, it can lead to exciting someone into doing something about it and making a change or Implementing features and provides activity, views, ideas etc on the forum.

I love xbmc, I am a huge advocate and I praise the software to everyone I know. All pcs I build get it installed by default for all family and friends, but I feel that now, it's become something I now "view" and feel that contributing etc is something I do less and less.... Mainly due to changes in how, we as a community, are spoken to/viewed, and how closed some mods are to discussing certain topics base don't their own opinions.

I'll likely get slated for this post. But I hope you see I'm not complaining. I'm not. I'm just sad that I feel that I'm being forced to go elsewhere because discussions on certain topics (Apple) are not welcome, and a point blank refusal to even converse openly regarding workarounds to our iOS problems.

It's not the App Store stopping us, we have upnp players, xbmc remotes, VLC, closed source players etc... We could make xbmc at least accessible via iOS even if it's not explicitly an xbmc app

Just an enhanced xbmc remote with a few open features. And for any required codecs, a small fee, and add a optional in app purchase of "donation" for 69p and let us donate via in app purchase etc. I'd donate monthly if you made it easy for me

There are ways, I just wish you guys were open to at least conversing about them

For clarity, after I reported martins post. The thread was reopened and we were allowed to continue the discussion but still. It was an unnecessary move for someone just trying to find a way to access xbmc from their new devices. It's complimentary, not derogatory.

Anyway, sorry if I have spoken out of turn.
But I will say, plex have a good vision for making their product accessible, and user friendly, and as as much as it absolutely pains me to say it... I am adding plex to my htpc as a solution to my xbmc issues.

[Zodler]

Beyond that, I think no one denies XBMC's approach to multi-client hasn't been much of a winner over the past couple years. It's why the XBMC 14 focus is going to be angled so far in that direction.

That is great news. I did play with some skins people suggested here and I have to reaffirm here loudly that the single reason I use Plex is the On Deck and Recently Added, Recently Viewed options. They are very important to me and you can't do that with XBMC.

I did try some skins in XBMC but they all show the In Progress status only for videos inside your library. This is not enough. You have many many videos not recognized by scrapers. Imagine you have a movie with 13 Extras. Those 13 Extras are not going to be added to your library. Imagine you have home movies where they are not caught by the scanner. Or maybe I don't know how to add all my files to the library.

I also would like to have all my in progress files in one easy list. What I do with plex is that I add all my files as Home Movies and then I use the Folder view to navigate them. It's butt ugly but very useful. I get all my in progress videos in one On Deck list.

[awp0]

Yeah, I don't think non-scrapable media is as well supported with these features. I think XBMC has a primary focus on providing a rich experience and presentation of scraped media. I've honestly never been bothered by it. Occasionally I watch a home movie or something like that, but I don't need advanced filtering and sorting for this because it's quite rare and represents a small fraction of my media.

[da-anda]

Why can't we add upnp to the official remote or commander or constellation and play the items hosted by xbmc on our devices in VLC, an open source player, a separate app, or a built in player... Whatever. Even allow me to "send to" an iOS device that is currently running the xbmc app and advertising it's self via upnp/airplay/whatever...

We can't do what Plex does because XBMC doesn't support transcoding yet, which would be required to play 1080p DTS-HD stuff on any other player app than XBMC (AFAIK). Support for transcoding was planned for Gotham, but GSOC project failed due to lack of time.

[awp0]

FWIW, today it was announced that Chromecast now supports Plex. I only mention it because Chromecast has been another popular request around here. Clearly this requires a transcoding engine for certain formats, so it's not coming to XBMC in the near future. I'm hoping it does come to MB3 though.

[PatrickBateman]

Why can't we add upnp to the official remote or commander or constellation and play the items hosted by xbmc on our devices in VLC, an open source player, a separate app, or a built in player... Whatever. Even allow me to "send to" an iOS device that is currently running the xbmc app and advertising it's self via upnp/airplay/whatever...

We can't do what Plex does because XBMC doesn't support transcoding yet, which would be required to play 1080p DTS-HD stuff on any other player app than XBMC (AFAIK). Support for transcoding was planned for Gotham, but GSOC project failed due to lack of time.

I can appreciate the time/effort that it takes to complete these tasks.
I don't ever seem to have enough free time to grab lunch at work, so I don't envy the position of the devs who chose to complete tasks/projects like this is this their spare time.

I love xbmc, I think it's wonderful. I am, however, a very impatient person by nature. So when I see these features I just want the, now. Much like my most anticipated feature of 13... Libreto (and video levels)

I'd like to see xbmc support upnp (a little more) as a method to play / view media / meta data etc via its official app embrace these openly accessible features a little more, as it means that less and less people are excluded from access their media via xbmc.
I absolutely hate the fact that I have now installed plex. I do. I feel a little disappointed as it's kind of acknowledging that it's not quite as great (for my personal circumstances) as it once was

That doesn't mean I don't like it, and yes it means I can leave and go else where. But you know what it's like when you are so deeply invested into a piece of software / item / gadget that you don't want to leave it and move on.

It's very likely ill just use plex for a year or so along side xbmc, but I'll still wish I could use upnp to interact with xbmc more effectively from some of my devices (regardless of brand)

As mentioned earlier, the focus of 14 will include this type of scenario. So as always, it will come to xbmc, as a mature, established integration that we can get a little later than the rest... In fact ... Not so different to the approach of a certain fondle slab tablet manufacturer

[natethomas]

Not to disappoint you more, but libretro isn't gonna make it for 13. It's a candidate for 14 though.

[BORIStheBLADE]

FWIW, today it was announced that Chromecast now supports Plex. I only mention it because Chromecast has been another popular request around here. Clearly this requires a transcoding engine for certain formats, so it's not coming to XBMC in the near future. I'm hoping it does come to MB3 though.

Yeah I just seen this today. They are definitely making some nice moves.

[kreeturez]

For the record, mysql was never the official way to link boxes. It was an option provided because we didn't have anything better. It's far too difficult and prone to failure to be an official XBMC method.

You might be surprised, Nate: I've been running MySQL to centralize my library (amongst six devices on four different platforms; including a Pi and jailbroken iPad) for nearly two years and have found it absolutely rock-solid.
The problem is more with the initial setup (both of MySQL itself, as well as managing AdvancedSettings to specify the server). If the setup could be streamlined (optional part of the XBMC install? Built-in support for specifying which server in XBMC's settings screen? Guidance to add library paths in XBMC's UI using only network shares if using MySQL?), then the take-up would be greater.
It's stop-gap, sure - but many users here will attest to how well it works once it's up and running.

Beyond that, I think no one denies XBMC's approach to multi-client hasn't been much of a winner over the past couple years. It's why the XBMC 14 focus is going to be angled so far in that direction.

I can't wait: and a hat tip from me to you for admitting it; we have some devs around here that sometimes get a bit hot-headed and seem to miss this point. We live in a connected world: everything should form part of an ecosystem - the stand-alone-only approach is getting a bit dated and we need to keep up.

As a die-hard fan of open source, I'll re-iterate that XBMC is unparalleled on the big screen (any old box + OpenELEC = XBMC bliss); and for my unjailbroken iPhones, we supplement with the also-open-source MediaBrowser3 (using Trakt for watched statuses).

I'm excited to see where XBMC goes from here in this regard and already can't wait for 14's release ;-)

[nickr]

For the record, mysql was never the official way to link boxes. It was an option provided because we didn't have anything better. It's far too difficult and prone to failure to be an official XBMC method.

You might be surprised, Nate: I've been running MySQL to centralize my library (amongst six devices on four different platforms; including a Pi and jailbroken iPad) for nearly two years and have found it absolutely rock-solid.

Me too, never a problem I have to say. 5 linux based xbmc clients

The problem is more with the initial setup (both of MySQL itself, as well as managing AdvancedSettings to specify the server). If the setup could be streamlined (optional part of the XBMC install? Built-in support for specifying which server in XBMC's settings screen? Guidance to add library paths in XBMC's UI using only network shares if using MySQL?), then the take-up would be greater.
It's stop-gap, sure - but many users here will attest to how well it works once it's up and running.

I have to say the setup was not a problem from my perspective, but I am a commandline user from being a linux devotee. Also I had mysql set up for mythtv already.

The advancedsettings.xml is pretty well a cut paste and edit from the wiki howto. I really do wonder how people struggle with this, but perhaps my skillset is just such that I found it a breeze.

Beyond that, I think no one denies XBMC's approach to multi-client hasn't been much of a winner over the past couple years. It's why the XBMC 14 focus is going to be angled so far in that direction.

I can't wait: and a hat tip from me to you for admitting it; we have some devs around here that sometimes get a bit hot-headed and seem to miss this point. We live in a connected world: everything should form part of an ecosystem - the stand-alone-only approach is getting a bit dated and we need to keep up.

As a die-hard fan of open source, I'll re-iterate that XBMC is unparalleled on the big screen (any old box + OpenELEC = XBMC bliss); and for my unjailbroken iPhones, we supplement with the also-open-source MediaBrowser3 (using Trakt for watched statuses).

I'm excited to see where XBMC goes from here in this regard and already can't wait for 14's release ;-)

I am very disappointed with the idea of MySQL support going away. For me it is one of the best parts of XBMC, easy to set and forget, no need to run XBMC itself on my server (ie a headless machine where it doesn't belong!) I wish my skills extended to keeping this part of the code alive and maintained.