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A reminder - piracy content
#91
So I take it you use github for "internal" purpose only then?
Don't respond, this isn't the place to discuss about this.
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#92
Ding!

The team ignores one of the topic's most pressing questions altogether, yet again!

YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE YOUTUBE

I already put enough work into the first post I made on page nine. So what if I'm getting sloppy now?
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#93
Oi.... You started out on a good foundation, then threw all that out the window with the next four posts lol.

Seriously though. "Banning" addons from the official forums isn't that big of a deal. It's not something they're comfortable with so they ban it from THEIR forums. It is rude and undignified to attempt to badger someone into allowing conversations they're not comfortable with in their own house. There are multiple other sites and forums much more comfortable with talking about these kinds of addons. You don't have to be "here" or "there," I know for a fact you can do both.

Personally, I feel like the smart thing to do is for them to share their thoughts on the YouTube situation with the community that supports them, but that's not my call to make. No one wants to talk to belligerent asshats that type in bold, underlined, all-caps text. They're human and doing what they think is best to support a hobby project, and that's all you can ask of them.

The question about YouTube and it's ilk is still valid. Leaving it unanswered is obviously causing some dissent within the community, which casts a bad shadow over the entire project (I liken it to MakerBot selling to Stratasys and the hatred that persists over that still).

With that being said, could we get some thoughts from the Team about it? Even if it's "we're still deciding," I'm sure the sensible part of the community would rather appreciate some information in a calm, rational discussion.
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#94
Not to make things worse but i bet most users don't even know what is mentiond in Youtube TOS anyway Wink
Atleast i don't.
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#95
I brought up the same issue with the IMDB scraper breaking IMDB's T&C some time ago, and that wasn't dealt with adequately.
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#96
There is a big difference between piracy and breach of T&C. Just because I put a clause in my T&C that says "By using this software you agree to indenture yourself, your family, and your descendents to us for all eternity." and you have clicked on accept doesn't make it so. The understanding that T&C are not law and the principle of fair use means I need to prove my T&C are reasonable, I suffer a material or reputational loss, or you are making profit at my expense due to you breaching my T&C, before I can reasonably expect to prosecute you.

Hopefully most people can agree with the following two statements.
1. While using XBMC to view legal and freely available content may strictly speaking breach the T&C of the content provider, it is considered reasonable to do so provided the content provider does not suffer material or reputational loss because of this.
2. The use of XBMC to view, distribute or otherwise access copyrighted or protected material for free, or through unauthorised channels, where the legal content provider would otherwise have reasonable expectation of payment is considered piracy and will not be supported at this forum.

So going further into the "grey" area...
a) XBMC addon stripping advertising content from otherwise freely available material (e.g.Youtube). I would think comparison to Comskip for PVR is valid here?
b) Use of XBMC to get around geo-locking of content (e.g. TV catchup). More legally problematic I think, particularly if you are bypassing the legal distributor for your region.

Hopefully the trolls will keep away and we can have a proper, calm discussion that will help clarify the foundation's positionSmile
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#97
Actually, we never given a shit about anyone's ToS/T&C, which is why there's no mention of that in the actual forum rules (wiki). Why anyone thinks the line about ToS/T&C would even discourage the actual problem here is beyond me. If people are trading links via PM then that's because they already know it violates the rules. ToS/T&C violations don't even apply to any of the banned stuff being discussed in this thread.

HOWEVER, all the threads that have been closed would still be closed, with our without that mention. Everything else that has been said in this thread is pretty much spot on. These games need to stop. One or two lines are worded funky, but only because the intention was to crack down on people trying to circumvent the rules. Don't get caught up on the details, you know what we mean.
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#98
(2014-01-23, 18:54)Ned Scott Wrote: Actually, we never given a shit about anyone's ToS/T&C, which is why there's no mention of that in the actual forum rules (wiki).
Well then why did prae5 say in post 1 of this very thread that the following are banned:

Quote:Providing / linking to streams from subscription based services that breach of their terms and conditions.
Providing / linking to streams from sites/services that breach their terms and conditions
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#99
@nickr: It's a misinterpretation of the intent. I agree it's not worded as neatly as it could be, as it appears to crack down on things that are obviously OK by the forum rules (YouTube et. al.) That's not the intent, obviously enough, as none of said add-ons, or their discussion threads have been removed.

Rather the intent was to get rid of the obvious misbehaviour of a (really tiny - we're talking well under 100) number of forum users that were basically using this forum as a way to get access to material that clearly falls under "piracy". I don't believe there's been much debate over the threads that have been removed, rather the debate appears to be over the wording, which is fair enough.

We'll see if we can tidy up the wording to avoid any confusion - this may take a wee while, so please have patience.

Thanks!
Jonathan
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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Cheers and thanks for the response.
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
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Hi,
one question: Why is something like PseudoTV LIVE still allowed here?
The developer is making money with online content from other free addons.
A lot of stuff is only available to donors. Same as SastaTV, which has been banned some time ago.
You guys (TEAM-XBMC members) can't even ensure, that these sold streams are legal or not. Except you have access to it / paid for it.

Or what is the difference?
But maybe i'm just wrong and it's okay to provide content for money here...
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Thanks for letting us know.

1. The developer appears to be asking for donations. That's fine.
2. Enabling features only for donors is IMO unethical (my personal opinion) when your software wouldn't exist without the freely contributed work of others - I'm not sure that this is directly against the forum rules (wiki) however.
3. I haven't run the add-on so can't comment on whether or not it is OK by the forum rules (wiki) - will refer to others to assess.

Cheers,
Jonathan
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


Image
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I've not used the Pseudo LiveTV addon in a while, certainly there was nothing questionable about it when i last used it. I'll look at it later and see if there is anything that looks questionable.

In answer to your questions, jmarshall has answered them already, but to expand:

(2014-01-29, 02:02)beastous Wrote: one question: Why is something like PseudoTV LIVE still allowed here?
Assuming that they aren't providing links to questionable content within the addon, then there is nothing wrong with it. We have no issues with addons that support live streaming.There is also was nothing wrong with all of the other features of the addon last time i used it. That being said i will check it out again.

Quote:The developer is making money with online content from other free addons.
A lot of stuff is only available to donors.
No problems with asking for donations or limiting features to donors. There is nothing stopping people charging for addons either. People put a lot of work into their addons, most give do it for free and that is their choice - however some may look for donations, again that is their choice. Again though that assumes it is a "good" addon with no questionable content.

Quote:Same as SastaTV, which has been banned some time ago.
SastaTV wasn't pulled because of charging/asking for donations, but because they were providing links to streams which failed our piracy rules. It would have been no different if they were giving them away free - it still would have been removed.
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(2014-01-29, 02:02)beastous Wrote: Hi,
one question: Why is something like PseudoTV LIVE still allowed here?
The developer is making money with online content from other free addons.
A lot of stuff is only available to donors. Same as SastaTV, which has been banned some time ago.
You guys (TEAM-XBMC members) can't even ensure, that these sold streams are legal or not. Except you have access to it / paid for it.

Or what is the difference?
But maybe i'm just wrong and it's okay to provide content for money here...

I do not distribute any media, at all! Before the crackdown on Livestreams there may have been a time "questionable" strms were being used. But since then I've conformed to the new rules...

Secondly. the strms provide only generate from plugins installed from your local system. So if you have foodnetwork plugin installed locally, and you are a donor. PTVL will create a channel of strm files that directly point to the plugins content.
No external sources!! ie I do not provide media... I aggregate and pool installed XBMC plugin content.

"Content for money" this statement cracks me up... you clearly have not read any of my posts... at all, nor do you understand the donor features or process... On top of that you hide behind a throwaway Username, Coward!

(2014-01-29, 21:12)jmarshall Wrote: Thanks for letting us know.

1. The developer appears to be asking for donations. That's fine.
2. Enabling features only for donors is IMO unethical (my personal opinion) when your software wouldn't exist without the freely contributed work of others - I'm not sure that this is directly against the forum rules (wiki) however.
3. I haven't run the add-on so can't comment on whether or not it is OK by the forum rules (wiki) - will refer to others to assess.

Cheers,
Jonathan

I want to address statement "2". I Understand you are generalizing, but the origin of the question regards to me.

I do not provide anything for donors that isn't available currently to regular users... I've always stated that Donor features are a Thank you gift (Nothing more).
for example... If you use my plugin and want trailers... I provide plenty of ways to do so (locally, youtube, xbmc library).
If you are a donor as a thank you (trust me no profits here!!). I added extra code that parses sites like HDtrailers.net...

Nothing devious going on...

I would never in a million years offer a feature to a donor that isn't available for free!! I've stated this numerous times in my thread...
Image Lunatixz - Kodi / Beta repository
Image PseudoTV - Forum | Website | Youtube | Help?
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@beastous I've had a very quick look over PseudoTV Live again and after a quick look can't see anything on it that would conflict with our forum rules.

Can you give me a specific instance of what you think it questionable?

Thanks
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