Mediabrowser3 and XBMC - the future?
#1
Krusty's recent teaser has made me sit up and take notice of Mediabrowser.
I'm a relatively recent convert to XBMC and am currently in the throws of trying to get a good PVR and integrated home network setup sorted, so it looks like a very promising and interesting fit. However, it also rasied a few thoughts and questions in my mind that Google didn't (or in some cases can't) answer...

1. MB's vision seems for it to be the glue that will bind your media world together. Use XBMC as HTPC front end, make apps for Roku, RPi, Android, smart TVs, basically anthing that you consume media on, so MB becomes the core that everything else runs off. This does have great appeal, and combined with MB3's format and stricter interpretation of the content providers T&Cs (e.g. no Youtube app without Youtube's approval), makes it far more likely than XBMC ever will to bridge the gap between opensource and the content providers.

2. MB has really made some great strides recently and I like its strategy. They seem to be very good at pulling Devs in to fill in the gaps (e.g.Krusty), and are very active promoting their product and broadening their appeal. However, there is something contrary in me that dislikes being pushed into anything & any hint of a hard sell tends to raise my suspicions. Which brings me to my next point......

3. MB3 is opensource which is a big +1. However unlike the XBMC foundation it's ownership is not quite as open & hence I worry over it's comittment not to try to screw as much money out its customer base as possible at some time in the future (e.g. Plex). Or to use the current jargon to monetise its customer base in some way...

4. The other thought that occurs is that in the above scenario XBMC is only really useful as a HTPC front end and a vehicle to play content (e.g. Youtube) that MB does not want to be seen getting its hands dirty with. If MB IS the way forward then are we (the XBMC community) wasting our time developing functionality that MB does as well or better. Should the development path be concentrated on just being the front end & integrate with MB for everything else, or should we continue to develop and broaden functionality.

My aim is not to stir controversy here, I'm just thinking out loud as a relative novice who would like some feedback from people who are far more knowlegeable on the subject than I am (and rubbish me where appropriateSmile ). For any MB people reading, an About us/Mission statement section on your website would be a good counter to point 3 IMO.
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#2
Well.. I'm not sure this is right section on these forums. Maybe it is. However, I do like the topic. I have been looking at MB3 a lot myself. I have even started using media center master a lot to better organize my library (that's a separate thread). I'll use both but I can never find myself just using MB3 and leaving XBMC behind. First, I'm not down with paid plugins. I know some devs should be rewarded for their work or whatever, but it just rubs me the wrong way. If you just accept donations that's different. Second, the sheer amount of plugins that XBMC actually does have. Until MB3 is able to compete with XBMC on that front (Like you said though, they don't want to get their hands dirty), it won't replace XBMC for me. Period. Some people pirate, some people don't. Whatever, I'm not here to judge. Point being, Netflix/YouTube/etc don't want their content next to plugins like that. Their loss. Some people prefer to use XBMC and don't pirate at all. I'm sure they'd like an official NetFlix plugin like Roku has. To be honest, I really like MB3. I just look at it differently than XBMC. MB3 to me is more like an enhanced Windows Media Center. I truly believe once XBMC gets PVR nailed down plus the Server/Client thing... it's game over.

P.S. I love the video backdrops that MB3 has. Hopefully that comes to XBMC lol.
Image
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#3
(2014-01-10, 21:45)jiggsaw Wrote: Well.. I'm not sure this is right section on these forums.
Me neither - I was going to post in off-topic but its not exactly off topic either... Anyway, the mods can move it as they see fit (Though hopefully not to garbage binSmile )

Quote:I'm not down with paid plugins.
Yeah, I guess that is close to the core of my concern. Is this the thin end of the wedge? (a la Plex) we install it, make it the center of our media library, and then down the road have to start paying to make the most of it, or else face the hassle of starting from scratch again with something else.

I'm not knocking MB3 either. I like the idea of things like a simple Android app/browser that allows you to both view the PVR EPG & record from it & watch library files/recordings - less fighting over the big TV and (hopefully) less episodes of Peppa Pig I have to sit through. Like you say, if XBMC PVR (and Android?) were the finished product I probably wouldn't have posted, but it's not in Frodo & won't be in Gotham either.
Likewise a Mediabrowser that is (relatively Huh) trusted by the content providers yet integrated with XBMC might provide a bridge that would avoid some of the ugly hacks and brick walls that XBMC currently faces when accessing legal content.(wishful thinking?)

From a purely selfish point of view.. I'm still playing with PVR and have barely started ripping our DVDs, so now is the time for me to setup MB3 if ever. I'd like to have the same trust in it as XBMC first thoughBig Grin
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#4
I have invited lukemb to comment. Was there a reason you opened a new thread rather than using the existing one?
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?pid...pid1593252
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
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#5
(2014-01-11, 00:44)nickr Wrote: I have invited lukemb to comment. Was there a reason you opened a new thread rather than using the existing one?
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?pid...pid1593252

Thanks, was thinking of doing the same with Xnappo, so I guess you beat me to it.
To answer your question I guess I wanted to start a discussion that was less about the here and now and using Mediabrowser rather than Plex as a complementary tool for XBMC (which I think is a given), and more about where the relationship between XBMC and Mediabrowser might be in a few years time.
A rather crude analogy - like Boxee, Plex, or OpenElec?
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#6
(2014-01-11, 01:23)mayoman Wrote: A rather crude analogy - like Boxee, Plex, or OpenElec?

What"s the issue with OpenElec?
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#7
(2014-01-11, 12:26)steve1977 Wrote:
(2014-01-11, 01:23)mayoman Wrote: A rather crude analogy - like Boxee, Plex, or OpenElec?

What"s the issue with OpenElec?

None. To rephrase - which will our relationship with mb most resemble in a few years, Boxee, Plex, or Openelec? I would be delighted if its one of cooperation like openelec.
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#8
(2014-01-11, 00:19)mayoman Wrote:
(2014-01-10, 21:45)jiggsaw Wrote: Well.. I'm not sure this is right section on these forums.
Me neither - I was going to post in off-topic but its not exactly off topic either... Anyway, the mods can move it as they see fit (Though hopefully not to garbage binSmile )

Quote:I'm not down with paid plugins.
Yeah, I guess that is close to the core of my concern. Is this the thin end of the wedge? (a la Plex) we install it, make it the center of our media library, and then down the road have to start paying to make the most of it, or else face the hassle of starting from scratch again with something else.

I'm not knocking MB3 either. I like the idea of things like a simple Android app/browser that allows you to both view the PVR EPG & record from it & watch library files/recordings - less fighting over the big TV and (hopefully) less episodes of Peppa Pig I have to sit through. Like you say, if XBMC PVR (and Android?) were the finished product I probably wouldn't have posted, but it's not in Frodo & won't be in Gotham either.
Likewise a Mediabrowser that is (relatively Huh) trusted by the content providers yet integrated with XBMC might provide a bridge that would avoid some of the ugly hacks and brick walls that XBMC currently faces when accessing legal content.(wishful thinking?)

From a purely selfish point of view.. I'm still playing with PVR and have barely started ripping our DVDs, so now is the time for me to setup MB3 if ever. I'd like to have the same trust in it as XBMC first thoughBig Grin


Not all of the plugins are paid, and I am actively recruiting more developers to help us add new ones.

We built an architecture that is easy to extend and we are inviting as many developers as can possibly get to help us add new plugins, client apps, etc. Developers have the choice of how they want to distribute their app, and if you look in the catalog you'll see a wide variety. Some are free, some are paid. When I recruit developers, I am fully aware that they are not committing their own personal time in order to please anyone. They have their own reasons. Some enjoy being part of a community project. Some are interested in personal portfolio development (for example, our iOS developer who released the iphone app into the apple store for free), and yes, there are some who do it because they want to make a few bucks. Whatever their motivation is I am still inviting them because in my opinion, a paid cover art plugin to dynamically style images is better than no cover art plugin at all. Would you agree on that?

I will remind you though that the core application is free and is open source:

https://github.com/MediaBrowser/MediaBrowser

Our iOS and Roku apps are also both free. I like free just as much as you do. If you want to see more free plugins, then let's recruit more people to build them. The paid plugins are all coming from a small number of people, while the rest of them are all free, and the majority of our contributors are doing it just because they like being part of the product. So the more the project grows with new contributors, the more of a minority the paid plugins will become. Please let me know if there is anything else I can answer.

About the title of this thread, does it have to be vs? I see great potential in using both Xbmc and Media Browser together.

(2014-01-11, 14:06)mayoman Wrote:
(2014-01-11, 12:26)steve1977 Wrote:
(2014-01-11, 01:23)mayoman Wrote: A rather crude analogy - like Boxee, Plex, or OpenElec?

What"s the issue with OpenElec?

None. To rephrase - which will our relationship with mb most resemble in a few years, Boxee, Plex, or Openelec? I would be delighted if its one of cooperation like openelec.

We are staying open source, I can promise you that. For the past few years I have had the desire to lead a community project, and I'm also a home theater hobbyist like everyone else here. And I like challenges. So those three factors are what led me to rally the MB2 team into giving the project a new beginning.
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#9
(2014-01-12, 04:39)lukemb Wrote: We are staying open source, I can promise you that. For the past few years I have had the desire to lead a community project, and I'm also a home theater hobbyist like everyone else here. And I like challenges. So those three factors are what led me to rally the MB2 team into giving the project a new beginning.
Thank you - that is what I wanted to hear. You have certainly been very effective in the recent past in bringing the project forward, and I do like what I see.
A mission statement expanding on the excellent sentiments above (& maybe more about your organisation) would be a good addition to your website I think.

Quote:About the title of this thread, does it have to be vs? I see great potential in using both Xbmc and Media Browser together.
Indeed. That is why I started the thread - I have been thinking a lot recently about how best to integrate all media devices in the home and XBMC and MB together have the promise to do that very well.
Ideally that would involve a (somewhat) integrated roadmap and parallel development to an extent - which requires mutual trust. But since my intent is to start a discussion and not a argument on the subject I will certainly remove the vs from the titleSmile
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#10
I guess removing the" Vs" seems the right thing to do .. but believe me thats what brought me to this post. I would also be very strongly a supporter of coming together of both these excellent softwares and the communities behind them. If this happened it would most definitely be an excellent feat.
As an avid end-user (non techie) I have been trying out both since circa 2007. And had initially started with MB but what with the only decent skins& plugins requiring Paid access & the frustration with having no native player &near to nil Remote Comparability is what pushed me towards finding something better .. which I guess I did in Xbmc. I have not looked back .. well I lie.. I have Always been looking both ways but until MB3 have not thought about actively trying it again.
What drove me to xbmc and kept me there is I guess what ( for me ) sums up the positives & negatives for both (xbmc & MB ).
my initial MB excursion and I guess issues with SQL + no native Player + poor remote integration is what really drove me to xbmc which fulfilled my needs.Since day 1 I could very easily setup my libraries + Have very good in house player with out of the box remote functionality is what sealed the deal for me. Then Aeon , Night & Nox just hooked me & I did not had the need to indulge with MB again.Scraping for Media is something what MB has been better as I had to and still use external scraping software ( Ember, Media Elch ) to fulfil my scraping needs.
And now there is more exciting developments on both sides.. 3D native support with Gotham , the Video backdrops & Back media cover with MB3 ... Mayoman & others have put it more eloquently then I.
I guess realistically at this stage even if there was official cross community support & excahnge of ideas (rather then just being "inspired " ...which has been happening on both sides..anyways .. its just natural ) would probably be the best thing at the moment .. God knows what might happen .. but one can certainly hope !
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Mediabrowser3 and XBMC - the future?1