[AzzX]

Just accept the statement, don't argue with it and live with it.
It's no more than what is already in the forum rules

I appreciate where you are coming from but firmly believe the issue is way bigger than that statement can convey.
Stating It is a regretful development that in our eyes, the most awesome media centre there is, is clouded by such a development in fact it almost belittles the fundamental nature of open development by allowing archaic and outdated notions to control it.

As I stated on that facebook thread, current copyright laws in no way reflect modern media usage. The simple act of ripping a DVD or Bluray in order to utilise an xbmc library to it's full potential is illegal i.e The moment you crack DRM to rip the Disc, you've violated Title I of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Fair use only applies to software in this regard.

Why XBMC is becoming a system for piracy draws parallels with PC gaming piracy before the likes of Steam and GOG came along:

Trevor Longino, from Good Old Games weighs in on the topic: http://www.gamersmint.com/gog-breaks-cov...-old-games

By focusing on piracy as the evil enemy of PC gaming", he told GamersMint, "the industry loses sight of two things: first of all, pirates are better at distributing games than many companies are. Why else would someone risk getting malware or a virus on their computer from a torrent, except that they've made it simpler to get a game through pirates than it is through traditional digital distribution?[/quote]

The answer I find is that XBMC provides a significantly superior solution to watch TV and Movies illegally than the traditional methods do legally - its that simple. As an example that affects myself, If you want to watch Game of Thrones legally in Australia, you need to buy a whole Foxtel TV package - there is no other legal avenue to buy the episodes separately.

So how does XBMC become the Steam of media and try to change these outdated notions on how we consume media?

[teeedubb]

So how does XBMC become the Steam of media and try to change these outdated notions on how we consume media?

Half-Life 3

[Martijn]

Oh damn you got it oh so wrong.
We don't care about piracy or how people obtain their media. This is open-source and people should decide what they want to do with their media. Fact is we just won't want it being discussed on our forum or want anything to do with it.

The main problem is that sites/people are promoting XBMC as if it is piracy itself. This just plain wrong.
They are packaging XBMC full of crap and selling it to uninformed and ignorant people who believe that XBMC is that what they get.
Not that it's a platform on which third-party add-ons can be installed that can be used for piracy.
When something breaks they comoe bitching at us that XBMC is broken instead of going complain at the add-on devs saying the add-on is broken. This is what gives us a bad name.
The add-on dev/websites or sellers should make it perfectly clear what they are selling is not a package deal and should take their part of the responsibility.
This is the main point.

Personally (not a team opinion) I'd rather loose the acclaimed 90% of users who use it for piracy alone. I would welcome if the industry would provide an easier way to legally obtain and use media straight into our system. This would certainly open doors for common people without to much knowledge to start using XBMC for the right reasons.



fyi:
ripping a disc you own to your own drive or make a copy for private use is legal in my country. they consider it a backup. not every country is as screwed up as the USA.

[AzzX]

Oh damn you got it oh so wrong.
We don't care about piracy or how people obtain their media. This is open-source and people should decide what they want to do with their media. Fact is we just won't want it being discussed on our forum or want anything to do with it.

Isn't that akin to ignoring the issue, I think this very problem and potential solutions need to be discussed more openly with the community. I agree these addon sellers are bad news but if these users eventually get directed here - instead of a blackout in regards to support, you could use this avenue to actually change a persons perception of xbmc.

The main problem is that sites/people are promoting XBMC as if it is piracy itself. This just plain wrong.

Agree but this isn't going away unless something fundamentally changes and the only way to do this if XBMC, out of the box, offers a better solution to media than what the pirates can offer - just like Steam and GOG.

If the big media companies are not coming to the party in regards to official addons for XBMC, don't give them the option. Start small, setup an official XBMC channel streaming service which only hosts free content and grow from there. I would definitely invest in such an endeavour - it just needs to be integrated out of the box.

Australia is also screwed up in regards to ripping and archaic copyright laws

[DarkHelmet]

Is this thread what instigated that post on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/XBMC

Pretty dissapointing statement.

Just accept the statement, don't argue with it and live with it.
It's no more than what is already in the forum rules

I get what you're saying in your statement and I totally support it. But there are quite some things you of team xbmc should have a discussion about.

Clearly you don't want your software to be used in a way that you did not originally built it for (using add-ons for illegal content). Fair enough, point taken. However team xbmc is bending the rules themselves sometimes. You

1. offer a software for ios systems and the Apple TV, that can only be installed if the device is jailbroken, which is something clearly the producer (Apple) of the devices does not want (just like you don't want your software to be misused).
2. offer a software for android systems, that can not be obtained from the official app store. I searched the forum for an eloquate answer as to why but I couldn't come up with one. There's tons of dodgy software available in Google's Play Store, yet xbmc isn't. One possible conclusion would be that xbmc breaks or bends some rule of the Play Store.

It my be hard to admit but in my opinion ios and android versions as they are (officially endorsed by team xbmc) attract tech savvy users with an affliction for using add-ons that you don't want to be used.

And finally like I stated in another post, the legal streaming opportunites *really* working well in xbmc are just not there. Like it or not media usage is shifting from local content to cloud content and streaming and so far official xbmc lacks some support for that.

[DarkHelmet]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBMC#Overview

XBMC has grown in popularity greatly in part because of the use of the third party add-on support to enable the accessing of pirated content available through online streaming sites such as PrimeWire, IceFilms and Project Free TV, although there are also add-ons for legal streaming sites such as USTVnow, Veetle, Crackle and FilmOn.tv also available. Since the XBMC Foundation blocked discussion of third party add-ons within their forums, XBMC HUB has become the main source for add-on development.

http://lifehacker.com/fusion-installer-f...1562946793

Umm, not so good.

[Martijn]

and that s clearly wrong statement.
We only blocked third-party development/discussion on our forum for shady add-ons. all other add-ons are still more than welcome. Also they are not the main site for add-ons. We still are.
This is the kind of misinformation I was talking about. So if any one has a wiki account and fix that statement?

The lifehacker article does clear state that we don't support it and it's not recommended but still they are promoting it.

[whaupt]

2. offer a software for android systems, that can not be obtained from the official app store. I searched the forum for an eloquate answer as to why but I couldn't come up with one. There's tons of dodgy software available in Google's Play Store, yet xbmc isn't. One possible conclusion would be that xbmc breaks or bends some rule of the Play Store.

I once heard it's because of:

1. xbmc.org is the only source of official XBMC builds
   
2. The apk file is too big for play store, which I guess isn't easy to address
   

[Martijn]

2. offer a software for android systems, that can not be obtained from the official app store. I searched the forum for an eloquate answer as to why but I couldn't come up with one. There's tons of dodgy software available in Google's Play Store, yet xbmc isn't. One possible conclusion would be that xbmc breaks or bends some rule of the Play Store.

I once heard it's because of:

1. xbmc.org is the only source of official XBMC builds
   
2. The apk file is too big for play store, which I guess isn't easy to address
   

2. This is indeed an issue as max size is 50Mb.
To solve this we would need to strip out ~7Mb from the APK or split it up in separate files. Discussion has been raise if we should indeed want to add it there or not. So far no decision has been made. Another point is that we have a ARM and a x86 version. Guess that is still possible to add them both as separate versions.

If we would add it to Play store that would of course also mean that will be an official source for builds.

[whaupt]

I personally don't really mind if I get the APK from Play Store or from xbmc.org.
The statement below is technically right, if one says it's a rule that an APK must not exceed 50MB of size, nevertheless it sounds kinda negative...

One possible conclusion would be that xbmc breaks or bends some rule of the Play Store.

[Piers]

The only solution is to continue with moving posts to the rubbish bin and wait for the media industry to catch up with the needs of consumers (5, 10, 20 years?).

I saw a post yesterday put in the General Discussion saying they had searched and not found anything, they asked for support with 'fusion' and 'pftv'.

Practical Solutions (which may have been suggested)

1) Assign another moderator solely to clear up piracy threads.

2) The previous options I suggested, which were turned down as this issue was deemed not to be an issue. Accusations of censorship were also flung around (yet this thread still continues...)

3) Site wide announcement (yellow box) with a simple line: "XBMC does not support piracy add-ons or use of certain third-party repositories" or something similar.
- The above message could be dismiss-able to user classes with more than 100 posts.

All of the above can be done with the existing forum software.

4) This will require additional work from the XBMC Team.
a) Authors submit all repositories to a team.
b) This team is small and consists of members the XBMC Team chooses.
c) They take a quick look and see if piracy/xyz is there, if it is then reject - if not then allow.
d) Available to users.
e) zips (individual add-ons) can still be installed, the only check will be on repos.

I'm sure there will be no shortage of volunteers for suggestion one or four.

I expect none of of the above to be implemented and this discussion to continue to go in circles for another 10+ pages.

Finally, if the issue is genuine and Team XBMC wants to address it then it will take more than a Facebook post, two sticky threads and a rule set somewhere near the top of the forum. If that's all the team is prepared to do then the issue may as well be forgotten. I would like to re-iterate that Team XBMC provides the second most useful and functional piece of software I've ever used (the first being operating systems.).

* Piers already had popcorn and goes to get more.

[davilla]

XBMC is not in the Google Play store because it is not ready for it. When it's ready, then and only then will appear there.

[TerrorKeed]

What I can add to this discussion is Is this..

personally I know more than 5000 people who don't know XBMC(I counted ), but they still do shitty pirate stuff.
Let's not forget that XBMC has some wonderful features that others don't have.
XBMC is the one that binds them all(Media/Entertainment)
XBMC is as legit as possible it has been used by the many people that know of it for legit purposes.
Also this is basically a media player(Talking about its ability to play audio-visual stuff)
Like any other media player it can be used to play pirate stuff and legit stuff too.
and as a media player that it is the foundation is not supposed to give a heck what it's used to play or do.(last I checked no media player can tell if a media file is pirate or legit)
And pirated stuff is not even related to XBMC in anyway.
I can tell you how i use HULU XBMC add-on and other legit addons for media ish.. You can tell this by the growing demand by Netflix users for an XBMC add-on

For anyone to castigate XBMC as a piracy haven is same as blaming Mozilla/Chromium for allowing "hackers" to use their software for criminal stuff (as they are browser's and both communities don't care or even want to care to know what you use it for as long as it has served the purpose it was made for "To surf the net .
Or rather why isn't all this hating directed towards the bittorrent protocol?(Torrent has been used to pirate more shit than ever possible It's getting to Exabytes )
as far as I can tell its even worst thing that happened to protected media.(Like a bad dream)

The Cyberlockers,Leech boxes, Seedboxes that house this stuff why not hate them and some countries that allow for such content to be distributed.
all XBMC does is play these files. and Basically is has served its purpose
people don't even know what xbmc is, well let me do you the honor of explaining a bit.
XBMC like VLC plays media. but XBMC happens to support extended softwares enhancers called "addons" written in Python what XBMC just does is play media thrown at it from so-called cyber-lockers etc.
XBMC also is open source and like any open source program can be tweaked to user taste meaning even if XBMC hadn't support addons and just plays media standalone, it is 100% possible for others to have envisioned this and made it possible.

I'm forever greatful to XBMC to been the ones to have made it possible themselves and all of it been official.

let's not bite the finger that feeds us guys. we should be praising this "Swiss-Army-Knife" of media playback in this 21st century.

I respect XBMC and the foundation, this piece of software is cross platform and so near-perfect that devs don't even see the need to modify it.

I hope I've made a point.

Typing from mobile == pain in the arse!

PS : I BELIEVE XBMC HAS DONE IT'S BIT IN CURBING PIRACY FROM ITS DOMAIN, AS XBMC IS NOT/WILL NEVER BE PIRACY POLICE.

[TerrorKeed]

What've read so far is like some "people" are trying to make the XBMC foundation do other peoples work for them.

[Piers]

Please allow me to dissect your post.

Also, why are three of your footer links going to a Google search? Wouldn't it be better to make those links have an actual use?

What I can add to this discussion is Is this..

personally I know more than 5000 people who don't know XBMC(I counted ), but they still do shitty pirate stuff.

You personally know more than 5000 people? I don't like knowing five people.

Let's not forget that XBMC has some wonderful features that others don't have.
XBMC is the one that binds them all(Media/Entertainment)
XBMC is as legit as possible it has been used by the many people that know of it for legit purposes.
Also this is basically a media player(Talking about its ability to play audio-visual stuff)
Like any other media player it can be used to play pirate stuff and legit stuff too.

Yes, it's a media player so will play any video content the internal player supports.

and as a media player that it is the foundation is not supposed to give a heck what it's used to play or do.(last I checked no media player can tell if a media file is pirate or legit)
And pirated stuff is not even related to XBMC in anyway.

But that's the problem, certain third-party websites and add-ons ARE relating piracy to the XBMC Foundation -- or at least people are getting confused.

I can tell you how i use HULU XBMC add-on and other legit addons for media ish.. You can tell this by the growing demand by Netflix users for an XBMC add-on

Hulu add-on from Lancs.? Not strictly legal but I've used the add-on before.

For anyone to castigate XBMC as a piracy haven is same as blaming Mozilla/Chromium for allowing "hackers" to use their software for criminal stuff (as they are browser's and both communities don't care or even want to care to know what you use it for as long as it has served the purpose it was made for "To surf the net .

Hacking is done via browsers? News to me, unless you're talking about DDoS tools but that's a very different matter.

Or rather why isn't all this hating directed towards the bittorrent protocol?(Torrent has been used to pirate more shit than ever possible It's getting to Exabytes )

It is.

as far as I can tell its even worst thing that happened to protected media.(Like a bad dream)

The BitTorrent protocol is very useful, people use it for piracy but it's also used for many legal purposes to reduce strain on server bandwidth.

The Cyberlockers,Leech boxes, Seedboxes that house this stuff why not hate them and some countries that allow for such content to be distributed.

Seedboxes and Cyberlockers can house P2P content - or Scene content, however the majority of the content comes from the Scene - which is very, very different.

all XBMC does is play these files. and Basically is has served its purpose

XBMC has served its purpose or the Internet has?

people don't even know what xbmc is, well let me do you the honor of explaining a bit.

Please, I'm listening.

XBMC like VLC plays media. but XBMC happens to support extended softwares enhancers called "addons" written in Python what XBMC just does is play media thrown at it from so-called cyber-lockers etc.

That's not what XBMC does. Well you're partly correct - XBMC provides a 10ft UI to allow people to watch their media whilst supporting the most common platforms and codecs. People can use cyberlockers to access content but that's not a core part of XBMC.

XBMC also is open source and like any open source program can be tweaked to user taste meaning even if XBMC hadn't support addons and just plays media standalone, it is 100% possible for others to have envisioned this and made it possible.

What?

I'm forever greatful to XBMC to been the ones to have made it possible themselves and all of it been official.

It wasn't very "official" to start with...

let's not bite the finger that feeds us guys. we should be praising this "Swiss-Army-Knife" of media playback in this 21st century.

This is one point in which I agree with you.

I respect XBMC and the foundation, this piece of software is cross platform and so near-perfect that devs don't even see the need to modify it.

I also respect the XBMC Foundation and staff, but the developers should be open to the idea - that's an opinion and not fact.

I hope I've made a point.

You've made several, most of which I don't agree with.

Typing from mobile == pain in the arse!

Yes, typing from a mobile is annoying.

PS : I BELIEVE XBMC HAS DONE IT'S BIT IN CURBING PIRACY FROM ITS DOMAIN, AS XBMC IS NOT/WILL NEVER BE PIRACY POLICE.

Problem with capslock?