[hstegeman]

We're not doing word substitution

We're not going to make someone become familiar with the XBMC community to just ask one question. Off-topic thread hijacking is already an issue with new users.

Well I think Ned has cleared that up.

In that case an extended sticky thread listing more names of commonly used piracy add-ons might be helpful. One stuck in the main support area and one stuck in the video add-ons area.

An other problem is that many users are making use of Tapatalk, me too.
An extended sticky thread is not visible in Tapatalk, not all users will see that list with piracy add-ons.

[un1versal]

Tapatalk bypasses quite a few things, or so I read.

[awp0]

IMO, if the moderators don't mind this enough to make forum changes, then I don't either. It's easy enough to just ignore those threads from a "non-moderator" perspective.

[hstegeman]

Tapatalk bypasses quite a few things, or so I read.

Yes, with Tapatalk you won't see the whole forum.
I don't know a good alternatives for a tablet, making use of a web browser doesn't work at all, perhaps a mobile version of the xbmc forum website would be an option.

[Piers]

I use a browser on my tablet to view forums, no problem at all. I only use Tapatalk on my phone for when a forum doesn't have a device-friendly design.

[Lunatixz]

Why not a word replacement for common add-ons that are known to promote piracy? MyBB supports this function.

Example:

I have just installed Icefilms and can't get it to work, can you help?

Auto-moderated:

I have just installed PIRACY IS NOT SUPPORTED ON THIS FORUM and can't get it to work, can you help?

Filter:

"Icefilms", "icefilms", "ice-films", "ice films".

This will do three things;

1) Make the user aware when they have posted that they're not going to get support.

2) Help search engines to not index the content related to piracy on this forum = less chance of a user visiting for that sole purpose.

3) Make the moderation of the forum easier and, as a future option, help to facilitate implementation of auto-move to rubbish bin of such threads.

To me, the above seems the most pragmatic way of dealing with an ever-increasing problem.

+1

[Prof Yaffle]

I've been watching this thread, trying to weigh up the different opinions. There's no clear answer from the arguments I've heard. There seem to be three streams:

1. Tackle the addon: stop the users from installing the addons in the first place, or make users aware that they're on thin ice(films).

2. Tackle the user: educate, inform, remind.

3. Tackle the forum: put in a hurdle to registration, modify the posts,

It strikes me that (1) is a non-starter because we can't practically prevent people from doing what they please - if nothing else, any 'protection' could simply be removed in a fork of XBMC, and off we go.

Stream (2) is underway and perhaps needs to be improved - formatting, reminders when registering at the top of the never-to-be-read terms, etc.

And then we have (3), which is unpopular because it's too much of a barrier to people getting genuine help when they're fresh users and really smacks of heavy-handed censorship, which goes against the somewhat libertarian spirit of much FOSS. I suppose we could moderate your first half-dozen posts, or limit first-time-posting to a certain "newbie help" section so spam/unsavoury posts would be easier to find - but it's still ugly and creates work for someone.

If I have an opinion, then, I'd vote for (2) - education, information, stickies - along with some enhanced way of reporting/locking piracy conversations if people feel that strongly about it. Whether that's a new option on the "REPORT" button, whether it's admins on a rota, whether it's certain people given the power and mandate to seek out and destroy because that's what they enjoy, maybe it's a standard response that can be quickly dropped in... just something to clean stuff up quickly.

The goal has to be to keep the forum tidy and useful to both people seeking help and seeking to give it. We may have to accept that we can't automate that.

[nooryani84]

I think you misunderstood my idea.

Do I really? having a different point of view doesn't mean what you seem to think.

Also, who said anything about swearing?

I did.

?

If swearing is heavily against the rules and international law then it should also be included. Last time I checked it was not.

it maybe a different kind of censorship, but its still part of forum rules. Under 1.1 #2 Forum_rules#General_conduct (wiki) swearing is not polite by any standards.

Also you must be absolute and abide by every law right? Or you merely suggesting enforcement? mmmm does law define morality?

The idea is to make a list.

There were lots of lists not long ago.... In Countries not far away in a time closer than memory does not forget.

I'm totally against any form of censorship and the fact that the the feature is built-in to the forum is irrelevant. The current system with "Report" is adequate and I honestly can't see why this doesn't suffice. If you want to censor your forums via a word replacement then do it in your own forums... Let this forum remain a free and open place, let the moderators worry about people who can't behave.

---

This is debate, we just don't agree with your suggestion.

I wouldn't say neither agree nor disagree, but definitely we are starting from different points of view, clearly we grew up in different realities.

That's a fair reply without childish undertones,

Im not sure what to make of that but ok, I agreed to dance with you so Im not going to complain you stepped on my toes, Its a debate after all so being poilte is also requirement especially in debates otherwise this reinds me of the DALEKS.... Exterminate!

Grow up.

As Ned has now mentioned that lists were previously discussed, I see no reason to continue this debate - especially since a few appear to be left wing oddballs.

Excuse me? Left wing oddballs?

[hstegeman]

The biggest problem with xbmc is in my opinion the prejudice that all third party xbmc addons are just crappy and shouldn't be used. I have no problem with the fact that we can't talk about piracy add-ons on this forum. But it's not a fact that all third party addons are crappy and should be seen as viruses. In my experience the best addons are made by third party developers. Without problems I can make a list of the 5 very best third party xbmc addons.

Although perhaps you don't like piracy add-ons, that is your own right, you should at least test them before you can say they are all crappy, I know that's not true based on my own experience.

[Martijn]

The biggest problem with xbmc is in my opinion the prejudice that all third party xbmc addons are just crappy and shouldn't be used. I have no problem with the fact that we can't talk about piracy add-ons on this forum. But it's not a fact that all third party addons are crappy and should be seen as viruses. In my experience the best addons are made by third party developers. Without problems I can make a list of the 5 very best third party xbmc addons.

Although perhaps you don't like piracy add-ons, that is your own right, you should at least test them before you can say they are all crappy, I know that's not true based on my own experience.

i'd like to add that 99% of the add-ons are third-party

maybe some are created by team members but they are still not part of the official XBMC release.
we would love if the "non-piracy" add-ons hosted in other repos would be added to ours as well but that's up to the developer himself if he wants to.

[Ned Scott]

The biggest problem with xbmc is in my opinion the prejudice that all third party xbmc addons are just crappy and shouldn't be used. I have no problem with the fact that we can't talk about piracy add-ons on this forum. But it's not a fact that all third party addons are crappy and should be seen as viruses. In my experience the best addons are made by third party developers. Without problems I can make a list of the 5 very best third party xbmc addons.

Although perhaps you don't like piracy add-ons, that is your own right, you should at least test them before you can say they are all crappy, I know that's not true based on my own experience.

Nah, I think it's a lot more specific. For example, the Hulu add-on has never been in the official XBMC.org repo, and I love the living crap out of that add-on. I even made it a wiki page: Hulu (wiki).

You can't find the posts anymore, but there was a time before I was on Team XBMC, before the more strict rules, when I would talk about using IceFilms. I've used the other ones too, like 1Channel, iStream, MashUp, and Navi-X. Navi-X used to be an alternative way to get youtube videos back in the old xbox XBMC days. I can't speak for everyone, but when I call an add-on crappy, then it's because I honestly feel it's crappy.

For example, the whole "maintenance tool" thing, where the file-locker add-ons often can't clear out their own pre-download folders, and sometimes make the entire HTPC run out of space. So they made a second maintenance add-on to clear out the space. That's sloppy.

The video quality on a lot of the file-locker add-ons is pretty crappy too.

The "you might get a virus" thing isn't literally talking about viruses, but it is a reference to when two of the big "third party repo" sites got into a little mini war and started using their add-ons to uninstall each other's add-ons. Plus the whole thing were one of them was tracking users watching habits without proper disclosure or the option to opt-out (since corrected, I hear, but it takes a lot to earn back trust).

The other example is SuperRepo, which doesn't specifically host any specific kind of add-on, but the way they allow anyone to submit add-ons makes it really easy for a prankster to upload a simple python add-on, pretend it is a popular add-on, and have it literally delete all the files off of your hard drive. I guess I shouldn't say that, since it basically puts the idea into some a-hole's head, but unless they do something to beef up security, it will likely happen one way or another.

So even if we didn't have an anti-piracy-discussion rule, I still wouldn't like many of those (specific) add-ons.

[un1versal]

If as a community we try to educate users and the reasons why certain things are bad idea and actually do it transparent and honest manner, we have more chance of getting through to people, then whipping them with a generic rule book. What atm is happening is the US and THEM nonsense. It just fosters animosity and other negative inflammatory nonsense.

For eg, the xfinity post you Ned and Martijn post 4 and 7 are good example, and all this information should be detailed in such wiki warning and sticki posts etc not just a big slap red warnings everywhere that mainly give impression of the whip and hardly any real useful infor why you shouldnt both legally and the dangers of actually setting such things up or buying such pre-installed boxes (which provide such things) from clearly unscrupulous individuals who are in it for the quick buck and none of the support.

Personally I think such information is fragmented and if the way forward is education, not censorship, it should be integrated. Though Im not saying if ppl dont get the message that they shouldn't be dealt with in the manner specified by the rules here in forums/wiki and irc.

Anyone in community that feels they must get involved by replying to such threads, then post a link to such more complete wiki/sticky thread and done.

[hstegeman]

@ned Scott,
Thank you very much for your response.

I love the idea that you also like some of the third party addons that I like.
Most the third party addons that you did mention are still great, it's almost like you could read my mind. I know it's impossible to talk about piracy add-ons here, but that's no problem for me. But I would like if it was possible that xbmc could be one big community, it has been shattered in too many parts, that's the real pitty.

[nooryani84]

I personally don't like adding 3rd party addons to XBMC via separate repositories. I'd rather install these addons separately as it keeps my XBMC install more tidy. I wouldn't mind having an official external user repository where apps are submitted and approved much like Android/iOS.

Edit: XBMC curated apps

[Piers]

Do I really? having a different point of view doesn't mean what you seem to think.


I did.


it maybe a different kind of censorship, but its still part of forum rules. Under 1.1 #2 Forum_rules#General_conduct (wiki) swearing is not polite by any standards.

Also you must be absolute and abide by every law right? Or you merely suggesting enforcement? mmmm does law define morality?


There were lots of lists not long ago.... In Countries not far away in a time closer than memory does not forget.

I wouldn't say neither agree nor disagree, but definitely we are starting from different points of view, clearly we grew up in different realities.


Im not sure what to make of that but ok, I agreed to dance with you so Im not going to complain you stepped on my toes, Its a debate after all so being poilte is also requirement especially in debates otherwise this reinds me of the DALEKS.... Exterminate!

Grow up.

As Ned has now mentioned that lists were previously discussed, I see no reason to continue this debate - especially since a few appear to be left wing oddballs.

Excuse me? Left wing oddballs?

Yes, left wing oddballs, weird people, morons, etc.

If as a community we try to educate users and the reasons why certain things are bad idea and actually do it transparent and honest manner, we have more chance of getting through to people, then whipping them with a generic rule book. What atm is happening is the US and THEM nonsense. It just fosters animosity and other negative inflammatory nonsense.

For eg, the xfinity post you Ned and Martijn post 4 and 7 are good example, and all this information should be detailed in such wiki warning and sticki posts etc not just a big slap red warnings everywhere that mainly give impression of the whip and hardly any real useful infor why you shouldnt both legally and the dangers of actually setting such things up or buying such pre-installed boxes (which provide such things) from clearly unscrupulous individuals who are in it for the quick buck and none of the support.

Personally I think such information is fragmented and if the way forward is education, not censorship, it should be integrated. Though Im not saying if ppl dont get the message that they shouldn't be dealt with in the manner specified by the rules here in forums/wiki and irc.

Anyone in community that feels they must get involved by replying to such threads, then post a link to such more complete wiki/sticky thread and done.

There is no "us and them". It's against the rules which were created by members of Team XBMC - this isn't a Hollywood film where two sides go in with guns blazing and fight an epic battle.

I personally don't like adding 3rd party addons to XBMC via separate repositories. I'd rather install these addons separately as it keeps my XBMC install more tidy. I wouldn't mind having an official external user repository where apps are submitted and approved much like Android/iOS.

Edit: XBMC curated apps

+1