NFS issues continue with Gotham beta 2

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bossanova808 Offline
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Post: #31
@memphiz @garretn - I have just confirmed the library dumping issue occurs with allegro NFS server and libnfs 1.6 (i.e. Beta 1) as well.

It's definitely not a hanewin issue, it's a libnfs issue.

(or libnfs and xbmc!)

My XBMC stuff:
(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 14:32 by bossanova808.)
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bossanova808 Offline
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Post: #32
Also - Gotham Beta1 definitely doesn't have the artwork problems. So basically libnfs behaviour from beta2 plus a fix for the artwork problems would be a get-out-jail here.

Something in here:
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/compare/Got...tham_beta2

(list of commits between b1 and b2)

...broke the artwork side of things.

I can't see an obvious commit there that would break it, but I am not the best reader of it. @jmarshall most of the thumb stuff in there looks to be you - any clues at all why anything in there would break artwork loading??

My XBMC stuff:
(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 15:00 by bossanova808.)
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bossanova808 Offline
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Post: #33
(2014-03-26 12:51)Memphiz Wrote:  You really think i will do a PR against gotham with going back to libnfs 1.6.3 again? This kills my credibility.

I don't want to blame it on you. Because I (so my fault!) should have never listened to one user who has problems. And then i also should not have listened when you told me all your problems are gone with libnfs1.3. Multiple errors i made here for sure - but we need to live with it now. (and just overread the blame from users).

This is something i learned. Not jumping into the knife because of 1 or 2 users are reporting a problem and claiming to know a valid fix for it.

@Memphiz

You added a lot after I first read this, I've just seen it.

When I tried putting libnfs1.3 back into beta1 - I did not see the artwork issues as most of my stuff still had artwork at a quick glance - it wasn't obvious and I was trying to help out by being responsive and testing things quickly. I should have tested more but I have very limited time - but I am sorry if I led you astray.

That said - it's still a better fix - if you'd released with 1.6 and then nuked a bunch of users libraries - those without a backup, that would be worse than missing artwork. Well, I think so. I suspect people losing all their watched/unwatched would think so too.

Anyway, to conclude my testing for tonight
beta1 + libnfs1.6 - library dumping but artwork works
beta1 + libnfs1.3 manually changed - no library dumping but artwork issue
beta2 + libnfs1.3 as delivered - no library dumping but artwork issue

Same behaviour with both Hanewin and Allegro servers

I suppose that actually means something before beta1 broke the artwork, looking at it.

My XBMC stuff:
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gibxxi Offline
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Post: #34
(2014-03-28 02:53)bossanova808 Wrote:  @gibxxi - have you explicitly used Frodo 12.3 with your NFS server? Frodo 12.3 was where the issues with library dumping started, but your server is not Hanewin.

@garretn - I have not had time to do much with allegro yet but over the weekend should be ok to do some solid testing. But to duplicate you really have to try something fairly similar I'd say - so not everything in a VM, but hanewin in it's own place, over the network, to xbmc clients on other windows machines (ideally both wireless and wired).

Yes m8. I installed 12.3 as soon as it came out pretty much. Didn't notice any large amounts of loss in the music library. That's not to say I wasn't having things dumped, just that I didn't notice any.

The ReadyNAS NVX/Ultra/Pro series ran a heavily modified version of Debian Etch. That's about all I know. The newer devices (ON OS6) are running something much more recent AFAIK.

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patseguin Offline
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Post: #35
(2014-03-27 19:46)brazen1 Wrote:  Switching O/S to accommodate NFS isn't an option for many of us imo. Personally I use Windows on 1 PC to do EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING including being an HTPC and a common everyday computer tasking many functions besides multimedia home theatre entertainment. I have added an AVR and some USB peripherals. There is nothing a NAS, standalone, or Linux/Unix/OpenElec, etc O/S is going to do more efficient, with ease of use, functionality, economically or popularity than my little ol' W7 PC aside from this XBMC NFS Windows issue and I can back that statement up.

SMB was ok for DVD material in the past. Not anymore. Streaming Blu-Ray WiFi with the best of routers and adapters is still impossible. Using AC1900 right now. Some titles work without buffering, some don't. NFS helps a bunch. Powerline adapters are also finicky. Wired there is no problems but many of us cannot add Ethernet cable throughout our homes so we depend on WiFi and that Wifi depends on NFS now and that NFS depends on Windows. Well, Microsoft gave up on NFS. It isn't even included in Windows anymore. So, we go to a 3rd party (Hanewin). I've been using it long enough to know it works better than SMB, it's simple, and I like it.

The point is, switching O/S from Windows to something more easily compatible with NFS is out of the question for users like me. I will use the broken functionality of libnfs and or an XBMC backward version before I would ever change my O/S or add a standalone device. It would be a step backward, not forward. Please pursue this issue and don't give up on it. I don't write code and I am not as techy as others here but I can follow directions and offer help where I can.

That's definitely fair enough. I ran mine with Windows for years. I found that I was really only running XBMC on it and a great xmbc user convinced me to use OpenElec and I haven't looked back. Super fast boot right into XBMC and all hardware is automatically set up, no messing with drivers. NFS works perfectly as well. You can install it onto a USB stick like I did and boot off that to test it out. Another user told me he would never use Windows on an HTPC. I found it a good learning experience. While I haven't gone with Ubuntu, OE is really just a Linux OS designed to run XBMC. While testing it on a USB stick, I found that I wasn't missing anything from Windows. Any hardware I plugged in was recognized. My Nyxboard, diNovo mini, etc. Try installing it to a USB stick and see if you like it. You might find that you don't need Windows at all.

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garretn Offline
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Post: #36
(2014-03-28 16:06)patseguin Wrote:  
(2014-03-27 19:46)brazen1 Wrote:  Switching O/S to accommodate NFS isn't an option for many of us imo. Personally I use Windows on 1 PC to do EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING including being an HTPC and a common everyday computer tasking many functions besides multimedia home theatre entertainment. I have added an AVR and some USB peripherals. There is nothing a NAS, standalone, or Linux/Unix/OpenElec, etc O/S is going to do more efficient, with ease of use, functionality, economically or popularity than my little ol' W7 PC aside from this XBMC NFS Windows issue and I can back that statement up.

SMB was ok for DVD material in the past. Not anymore. Streaming Blu-Ray WiFi with the best of routers and adapters is still impossible. Using AC1900 right now. Some titles work without buffering, some don't. NFS helps a bunch. Powerline adapters are also finicky. Wired there is no problems but many of us cannot add Ethernet cable throughout our homes so we depend on WiFi and that Wifi depends on NFS now and that NFS depends on Windows. Well, Microsoft gave up on NFS. It isn't even included in Windows anymore. So, we go to a 3rd party (Hanewin). I've been using it long enough to know it works better than SMB, it's simple, and I like it.

The point is, switching O/S from Windows to something more easily compatible with NFS is out of the question for users like me. I will use the broken functionality of libnfs and or an XBMC backward version before I would ever change my O/S or add a standalone device. It would be a step backward, not forward. Please pursue this issue and don't give up on it. I don't write code and I am not as techy as others here but I can follow directions and offer help where I can.

That's definitely fair enough. I ran mine with Windows for years. I found that I was really only running XBMC on it and a great xmbc user convinced me to use OpenElec and I haven't looked back. Super fast boot right into XBMC and all hardware is automatically set up, no messing with drivers. NFS works perfectly as well. You can install it onto a USB stick like I did and boot off that to test it out. Another user told me he would never use Windows on an HTPC. I found it a good learning experience. While I haven't gone with Ubuntu, OE is really just a Linux OS designed to run XBMC. While testing it on a USB stick, I found that I wasn't missing anything from Windows. Any hardware I plugged in was recognized. My Nyxboard, diNovo mini, etc. Try installing it to a USB stick and see if you like it. You might find that you don't need Windows at all.

I live and breath linux personally, my primary desktop is linux -- which I work from, so I spend close to 10 hours every (work) day on it. However, like others I imagine, the fundamental problem (and is still a problem -- that while improving, is not there yet) is if you play games on your HTPC at all. I launch Steam Big Picture from mine, and play games that aren't available for linux. Switching OSes for this is really not feasible, I would either never play the games or never use XBMC, switching is just too spur of the moment.
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patseguin Offline
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Post: #37
Gotcha. The gaming definitely is the deal breaker for Linux.

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gibxxi Offline
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Post: #38
Doing a HTPC rebuild in a few months time. Not going down the NUC route because I don't fancy having an ugly big hole in the bottom of my rack, with a dinky little NUC device in it, lol, but more importantly I plan to share my Steam library to the same machine. I expect I have quite a few titles on Steam that won't be available on "SteamOS" so I will need to retain W7 as a possibility.

Am also thinking about going OpenELEC, but that won't solve the problem of my laptop in the bedroom which serves as my late night media player. NFS not working isn't "critical" for me, I have little/no HD content, nor the desire to use large portions of my NAS's storage to store it, but getting the best performance for the hardware/media I DO own is certainly desirable.

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(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 19:55 by gibxxi.)
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brazen1 Offline
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Post: #39
In my pursuit of the ideal setup for myself, I wanted storage for my data I could share on my local network and access outside of my LAN. I also wanted this server to shutdown completely when not accessed and wake from a cold boot when needed. I wanted the best streaming ability available since SMB wasn't working for modern size files anymore and installing ethernet cable all over the place was out of the question. So a decent router was included.

Then I needed something for playback. I used the internal player on the TV for a while but it was primitive and as my movie collection grew, cataloging became impossible. MCE with MediaBrowser was ok but limited. Then I discovered XBMC. A whole new world opened and I caught the bug. So my playback was going to be via a PC through an A/V reciever. A windows PC because I know nothing about Linux and code and SSH and so on and learning was overly complicated for my needs.

I also needed a PC to run small business's, surf, email, home automation and run countless windows softwares for other adventures and then was introduced to audio/video editing. Getting a backed up 3D Blu-Ray to render from file properly was a whole new challenge so the chip was an i7.

In my mind I was going to need a whole bunch of devices which were blends of Windows and Linux. I bought a Raspberry Pi to practice. Afterall, all the forum talk was about Linux based NAS and NFS. There was nothing much about Windows and NFS. So, I embarked on a mission. I'm cheap. Not only did I want everything ecomomically, I wanted my electricity usage kept at a minimum and didn't want tons of equipment stuffed everywhere. The heat generated in my theatre room would also be an issue as well as the noise. That's when I decided to build 1 silent box that did everything and being naive about anything outside of Windows, it was all going to be Windows based.

Enter a modified silverstone htpc case with (9) 4TB HDD's and an SSD, then install the hardware, W7 O/S, etc. Add the modem/router, the TV, and the AVR. Plug in a few USB devices like a printer, some X-10 stuff, and a 10 bay port duplicator for backup and it was time to make it all work.

In the end, I was left with 1 problem. XBMC can playback a 2D iso on a client but not 3D. So any streamed 3D iso will only playback in 2D. So I would stream to an external player triggered by XBMC batch files but it would need to be mounted on a virtual drive and there is the problem. A client served by Hanewin NFS for windows can't map a drive letter and without it there is nothing to mount. So, client devices are limited to 2D playback. Can Alegro do this? I'm writing this and my prior 'book' not to hijack this thread but to confirm there are many ways to skin a cat others might find of interest. I see some talented individuals here that I don't run across often and thought you might be able to shed some light on this problem other than serve from linux etc. Feel free to PM me and if this post is too far off the thread subject it deserves to be removed and I'm ok with that. I feel because this libnfs problem would not exist if not for Windows users, the post describes the importance of it for at least 1 user.

Now my client devices have a new 2nd problem. Artwork or title count due to this libnfs conflict. I thought the custom build http://mirrors.xbmc.org/test-builds/win3...ewin32.exe put everything back to normal at the time I tested it. I installed it again this morning on top of the latest nightly and it didn't work. I get the correct title count, artwork loads for newly scanned items, but existing items show no artwork unless I manually refresh them from the info tab. The newest nightly wouldn't refresh at all and newly scanned items showed nothing either. I suppose I could delete AppData\Roaming\XBMC\userdata\Database folder, but it would take hours to rebuild. Is it worth trying or is this build already deemed non-op? Fwiw, I did install this custom build on top of what was the current nightly when it was made available and all was well. No idea what changed other than installing a nightly on top of it. Thanks for reading my rant.
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garretn Offline
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Post: #40
So basically, people don't use samba for a reason (usually performance), which should be a surprise to no one really.

As far as the XBMC builds, that was explained earlier. Beta2 and newer have a downgraded libnfs that when combined with other post Beta1 code breaks art *if* the artwork files being loaded come from an NFS share (If you refresh and select to use an -online- source, it'll load the art), likewise XBMC uses the Thumbnails folder to cache what it actually displays, and if it's already in there it has no need to load from the NFS share -- and that art will show (which causes some confusion).

Frodo 12.3 and Gotham Beta 1 have the newer libnfs that's compatible with whatever code changes to the artwork stuff that happened between Beta 1 and 2, while Beta 2 has the downgraded version of libnfs (for windows only) that is *not* compatible with said artwork changes/whatever related to that. Unfortunately, the newer one reportedly causes havoc on some users' video libraries.

What you can do to get artwork working on Beta 3 for windows is to simply drop the libnfs.dll file from Beta 1 over Beta 3's. However, if you were having issues with Beta 1 / Frodo 12.3 and your library, those issues would very likely come back. Personally, I've not been able to reproduce the library issues and came in to this over the artwork problems, so I simply use Beta 1's (the newer libnfs) libnfs.dll.
(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 20:18 by garretn.)
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brazen1 Offline
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Post: #41
I see. So, if install the latest nightly and replace the libnfs.dll with the 1 from Beta 1 I should be back to normal. Do you have a link to download it so I don't have to install Beta 1 to grab it? I'll test it on my system right now. Never mind. I'll install B1 and get it, then reinstall the nightly.
(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 20:41 by brazen1.)
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garretn Offline
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Post: #42
(2014-03-28 20:31)brazen1 Wrote:  I see. So, if install the latest nightly and replace the libnfs.dll with the 1 from Beta 1 I should be back to normal. Do you have a link to download it so I don't have to install Beta 1 to grab it? I'll test it on my system right now......

You can actually just grab it like this:

http://mirrors.xbmc.org/releases/win32/x..._beta1.exe

and open it with something like 7-zip directly, it has no problems extracting from the exe. That said, here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/whhzpo33ge81z72/libnfs.dll

Although to be honest, I'm glad you trust me -- but typically you wouldn't want to grab a dll file from some random dude (hence the instructions). Smile
(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 21:10 by garretn.)
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brazen1 Offline
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Post: #43
Nothing personal but that is why I'm manually getting it myself. Thanks for taking the time though.
Installed 28th nightly and let it scan for new content of which there is none. No artwork.
Replaced with old .dll. All artwork present with no need to refresh. After scan, 'Latest movies' is not showing by date added and appears random with the exception of a couple new titles already scanned from just prior to these changes. I assume as new titles are added, they too will be added to the latest filter. On this client, never used watched status so don't know if that was affected. When selecting an iso from the server to watch on this client, it takes a while to load. It is not waiting for drives to spin up. After a couple minutes it presents the 'Select playback item' pop up and selecting the title renders immediately. Lots of jerky playback and I know in the past, this client rendered smooth with no buffering using the same title. After stopping playback and restarting same title, goes through the same hanging process before popping up the 'Select playback item'. This is all WiFi. Using Ethernet everything is ok. Must be my end.

Thank you garret. Rep point in order.
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gibxxi Offline
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Post: #44
(2014-03-28 20:18)garretn Wrote:  So basically, people don't use samba for a reason (usually performance), which should be a surprise to no one really.

As far as the XBMC builds, that was explained earlier. Beta2 and newer have a downgraded libnfs that when combined with other post Beta1 code breaks art *if* the artwork files being loaded come from an NFS share (If you refresh and select to use an -online- source, it'll load the art), likewise XBMC uses the Thumbnails folder to cache what it actually displays, and if it's already in there it has no need to load from the NFS share -- and that art will show (which causes some confusion).

Frodo 12.3 and Gotham Beta 1 have the newer libnfs that's compatible with whatever code changes to the artwork stuff that happened between Beta 1 and 2, while Beta 2 has the downgraded version of libnfs (for windows only) that is *not* compatible with said artwork changes/whatever related to that. Unfortunately, the newer one reportedly causes havoc on some users' video libraries.

What you can do to get artwork working on Beta 3 for windows is to simply drop the libnfs.dll file from Beta 1 over Beta 3's. However, if you were having issues with Beta 1 / Frodo 12.3 and your library, those issues would very likely come back. Personally, I've not been able to reproduce the library issues and came in to this over the artwork problems, so I simply use Beta 1's (the newer libnfs) libnfs.dll.

"A Few Users"? Define A Few? I've not been following the Beta thread all that closely, but I can't help thinking downgrading NFS for the sake of "A Few Users" is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Is it even confirmed that those users issues were directly caused by the newer libNFS library?

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garretn Offline
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Post: #45
(2014-03-28 22:52)gibxxi Wrote:  "A Few Users"? Define A Few? I've not been following the Beta thread all that closely, but I can't help thinking downgrading NFS for the sake of "A Few Users" is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Is it even confirmed that those users issues were directly caused by the newer libNFS library?

I entirely agree, but it's already been covered in the thread (see this post). Memphiz does a large amount of work for XBMC, including the majority of NFS support (not sure if all of it, but a lot of it from what I've seen), so give him a break though, okay? Smile
(This post was last modified: 2014-03-28 23:01 by garretn.)
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