Freescale iMX6 XBMC box on Indiegogo
#31
Hi Guys

I have just read the full thread, I guess some very good points have been raised but some others are, to my mind, a little unfair or simply require explanations.

Note that I have exchanged a lot of mails with Ashok regarding his project and that I have explained why I agreed to bring support on my blog but I remain free to express my own independent mind about all of this : The campaign can be an epic failure, I shall not lose anything... Well nothing at financial level (I have definitively no personal money engaged) but I would loose the hope to have a imx6 device which provides a smooth experience out of the box for end users.

1. First, I read a lot of criticisms about the target price.
Frankly, let's compare apples with apples. I understand that in the marketing storm, some cheap boxes seem to have much better value for money.
But, it is not so obvious if we try to look at the full picture. Let me explain :

Most cheap android boxes are nothing but clones with no engineering around the product itself : a tablet mainboard is put in a box. It will work to some extends and that's it.
They package a cheap SystemOnChip with no long life support, no documentation, not even a decent public datasheet !
At software level you will get nothing but an android image that will never be updated : Often it is binary only with no clear tracking of kernel sources nor parts that are not AOSP. You are lucky if XBMC is preinstalled and the final experience will be somewhere between good with a few issues (that will be unsolvable because there is no support : neither at hw nor sw level) to total useless crap...

So, to my mind, the misunderstanding is considering ezeecube is such a box.
Ezeecube is a product designed with user and ease of use in mind by Ashok and his wife to tackle a specific goal : Being a great photos organizer which syncs with any smartphone in a breeze and provides useful service around that initial purpose.
It happens that it will use XBMC as its core software and should be a nice mediacenter (including liveTV support)
As a real product it will provide support and updates
As a real product it tries to have an appealing design easy to integrate in the living room

Even if we are unfair and forget about all of this, we can have a look at the hardware itself :
How much will cost a imx6D based board with 1G 64bits/533x2Mhz DDR, 1gps Ethernet, wifi and BT connectivity + 4GiB Sdcard + a case + a wifi antenna (because no integrated antenna on the wifi chip) + power supply + 1TB 2.5" HDD ?

For instance if we take wandboard as a reference board it will be :
99(board) + 5 (sdcard) + 10(wandboard plastic enclosure) + 10(wifi antenna) + 10 (PS) + 70 (HDD) = 204$
And be aware that the imx6Dual in ezeecube is really better than the imx6D Lite in wandboard dual. In fact, it is identical to imx6Q except the number of cores (being able to have sata, more L2 cache, GC2000 GPU , vector unit GC355...)
Not to mention that wandboard SPDIF and CEC signals are improperly wired on wandboard (at least on first runs I have bought, I don't know if it is solved now) : you want them to work ? Then, I hope you like to play with a soldering iron and are skilled enough not to burn SMD components all around...

So 179$ for ezeecube is not expensive. If you still have doubts, take the BOM (Bill of materials) and check for the components price one after the other, then think about the hardware design, the pcb production, the software effort and you will conclude that there is absolutely no profit at this entry price...

Sorry if I seem to be too supportive of this project : Again I have no personal interest but I know how difficult it is to do good engineering and I think it is unfair when people with good technical background focus that much on price without considering the product, its features and its end user experience as a whole.
Obviously communication/marketing are also at play here and it is likely that a better presentation may have leveraged these criticisms.
To me, there is some space somewhere between sonos or apple products and very cheap android boxes. This product, if it successes, could fit in this gap.
Moreover it would not trade the ease of use against openness for more advanced users as it is sadly too often the case...

2. There was a mention about "No port-forwarding configuration required"
It may seem strange but think about syncing two ezeecube though the internet or simply browse photos from your smartphone when you are away.
If the ezeecube simply acts as a server then you will have to configure your personal firewall to open and forward specific ports to the ezeecube and allow connections from the internet.
So I think Ashok wanted to say that users will not have to manually configure their firewalls that way...

3. Last I can also share my mind regarding docker as I am definitively the person who convinced Ashok to use LXC as a way to host another generic ARM distro side by side with the core product : I have posted 10 hours ago an answer regarding docker as a comment here
AS an addition to this comment on my blog, note that there is no official ARM packages support in docker (Refer to this issue) and that the core LXC feature which is already planed allows to install very easily Couchpotato, Sickbeard or Pydio (one apt-get command).
If I understand correctly, the main difference is they will fall in the same ubuntu/(whatever other distro you like) container which is just the way they are installed and used by most linux users. Please correct me if I miss something...

Regards
Stephan
Reply
#32
(2014-06-11, 21:33)ronbaby Wrote:
(2014-06-11, 10:01)nickr Wrote: I think you are preaching to the converted when you are looking at here, XBMC facebook etc. People who are on this forum or xbmc facebook probably already have a machine running xbmc, and don't need a new one.
It's true that most people here will already have an XBMC machine, but I, for one, would like to have something rather different than what I have now (which is a Foxconn book-sized PC). If I could get something that integrated a good quality OTA TV receiver and/or an optical drive, I'd sell my trusty Foxconn on ebay in a minute and get that new thing.

Also, I am always on the lookout for things I can recommend to my numerous as-yet XBMC-deficient friends.
It doesn't have a tuner. Even when if it ever does, it'll be the wrong one for many people. TV is broadcast over many different systems around the world (dvb-s dvb-t dvb-c atsc not to mention the systems they use in japan and china)

It is extremely hard to make a digital pvr system that has worldwide appeal, given that there is no worldwide agreed system for TV broadcast.
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#33
One our backers suggested this vendor http://www.tbsdtv.com/ (30min train ride from Hong Kong) and Stephan has worked with them before, we have been talking to them, trying get their recommendation and asking them if they would open source the driver.
Reply
#34
exciting update..we are exploring possibility with open source retroplayer community to build stackable hardware for retro games..below is the rough design of how it may look like, what you guys think? please follow below thread for details

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=198296


Image
Reply
#35
Now you have my attention! :D
Reply
#36
thanks Ned, here is another rendering of the console. we need little help with the PCB design of this module, any pointers?

Image

Image
Reply
#37
Retrogame stack is official, you can also check the working app and XBMC with photo sync on the video in this article

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/04/ezeec...media-hub/
Reply
#38
The cartridge stack is likely the ticket to selling the whole stacking concept. Sure, all of the stacks are just using USB and you could use normal USB external enclosures, but it's hard to ignore how slick it looks and how clever the basic concept is, even if the utility isn't massive. It's one of those things that has been done before and could even be done just using ROMs, so some people might not see the appeal, but I think the mass public will think it's cool as heck, even if they don't plan on really using the features to their full extent. This is the kind of thing that people would buy in droves just to show people that it's possible, even if it's just a dinner conversation starter.

I don't know much about PCB stuff, but I would ride this cartridge concept and explore it as much as possible. Bonus points if the cartridge stack included controller ports that had simple cheap USB converters for Sega and Nintendo controllers. Maybe contact the people at retrode.com and see if they'd be interested in working with you. It's basically the same idea they've been selling, but in a slick package that emulates the feel of the original console setups, rather than being an "accessory". It's something that stands out there in the living room, showing itself off. People like to show off cool gadgets.
Reply
#39
the article is very misleading. You can't claim it as official if you dont even show a real life prototype. or give details on how it works. this little quote doesn't cut it

"As our first stretched goal of $125,000, we would work with open source community to build stackable EzeeGame. It would read Nintendo and Sega cartridges and emulator in XBMC would process this data."

doubt you would get close to that. expected retail price of $299 plus the cartridge model. not going to happen and Ned I think your assumptions are of base have a look at what user think at youtube comments...cant find the video now lol

really I'm trying to like this but I just see a solution to a porblem that doesnt exits. even the founders partner quotes "I just cant trust the cloud"? firstly cloud is the future, I bet you already use cloud, email, facebook,...your trying to market q3 2015. a year away from now. cloud will be even stronger then. google have already released google tv. and google will have games that the new generation of kids would want to play. you've lost on so many level before you even started.

I just dont like how you mislead me. I want my 5 minutes back
Reply
#40
If the article is misleading then you should blame Engadget for not being able to do a good job at reporting on anything. I blame them for that all the time.

Making a USB cartridge reader is probably easier than the HTPC itself. I'm not sure what you mean by "your assumptions are of base", but I'm telling you, people would buy this. They're not selling it to a specific group of shitty youtube commenters, they're selling it on the open market that is full of people with more money than sense. I mean, look at all the people who got suckered into buying a Banana Pi because it presented an interesting concept, even though it's functionality is basically a turd on a stick :)

Look at the OUYA. I love the OUYA as an XBMC box, but for games it sucks balls. I knew this back when it was just a kickstarter project. Look at all the fitness bracelets people are buying. The Nest smart thermostat. The list goes on of things that will most likely not exist in a few years, but people will line up in droves to spend money on it. People love concepts, even if that concept isn't a viable long term business.

Google has been trying for years to make a mass successful TV product, and they continue to fail. I would not hold my breath for Google, even if they paid me.

No offense to the EzeeCube, but despite being a quality box, I didn't think the crowdsourcing campaign had a chance in hell of succeeding, because it didn't strike a fire in people. It didn't really stand out. The stacking modules alone wasn't enough. This cartridge concept, even if it never becomes real, is neat enough to get them the attention they need to fund the campaign. It really doesn't make them unique or special, and I wouldn't buy it myself, but with that concept alone being presented then it has a chance of succeeding.

On top of that, the core product, the EzeeCube, is a quality box, and I really want to see Freescale boxes succeed in this space. If someone is willing to pay extra for the additional stacks, good for them, but it's not like they're lying about anything.
Reply
#41
Ned have been proven right, the campaigns recent success is proof.

Since Engadget posted cartridges stack for RetroPlayer article their funding have shoot through the roof.

The article might be misleading but it is the idea some people love.

My opinion is now they must add this stack, stretch goal met or not.
Reply
#42
Guys

Wanted to keep you posted about latest progress. We successfully finished our campaign earlier in August and sold 700 units and several stack-able accessories. We are going ahead into production with 1000 units right now and have spare 300 beta units available for pre-order

- Slimmer, elegant design
- Top as well as bottom stackable
- Support 6 stackable modules
- USB OTG to transfer data directly as external hard drive
- CEC enabled for using existing TV remote
- Bluetooth enabled for keyboard, speakers etc
- OwnCloud pre-installed to store & access any kind of files
- Pre-configured PVR for off the air TV recording

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


please let me know your feedback
Reply
#43
Quote:Pre-configured PVR for off the air TV recording
What tuner does it have? (or did I miss this?)
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply
#44
we have selected USB TV tuner dongles for different standards that support linux drivers and these tuners would come pre-configured
Reply
#45
Using what backend? I am guessing TVHeadend?
If I have helped you or increased your knowledge, click the 'thumbs up' button to give thanks :) (People with less than 20 posts won't see the "thumbs up" button.)
Reply

Logout Mark Read Team Forum Stats Members Help
Freescale iMX6 XBMC box on Indiegogo1