Is 24p better than regular rips?

  Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Post Reply
patseguin Offline
Donor
Posts: 1,382
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 8
Post: #1
Let me clarify my title. I use DVDFab on some titles and MakeMKV on other titles from my library to rip them to my NAS. I always just use the audio copy and video copy to get an exact reproduction. I've been pretty happy with picture quality. However, I turned on my BluRay player the other day to see what a 3D blu ray looked like vs XBMC and saw that my TV switched to 24p which I had forgotten about. Is 24p a better quality picture than the regular rips that I do? If so, does either DVDFab or MakeMKV have an option to rip in 24p format? I haven't been able to find any information on this by Googling.

Server: Synology Diskstation 1511+ with 8x 3TB drives and DSM 5.0
Main HTPC: Home built Intel core i3, 8GB RAM, Corsair 128GB SSD, nVidia 630GTX, Rii micro keyboard remote, Pioneer VSX-53, Panasonic VT30 65" 3D TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
Bedroom HTPC: Zotac-ID 41 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Rii micro keyboard remote, Samsung HW-E550, Sony Google TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
find quote
popcornmix Offline
Team-Kodi Member
Posts: 2,740
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 66
Post: #2
The way you are ripping sounds fine. It's how you play them back is the issue.
If your TV supports 24p, then make sure you enable "Adjust display refresh rate to match video framerate".
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Settings/Videos

and experiment with "Sync playback to display" options.
find quote
patseguin Offline
Donor
Posts: 1,382
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 8
Post: #3
Ah, OK so if the movie has 24p support, it will just be ripped that way and if I enable that XBMC option then my TV will switch to 24p? It does support it becuase my blu ray player switches the TV to 24p. I just wondered if there was some setting in one of my rippers that I needed to use to get 24p.

Server: Synology Diskstation 1511+ with 8x 3TB drives and DSM 5.0
Main HTPC: Home built Intel core i3, 8GB RAM, Corsair 128GB SSD, nVidia 630GTX, Rii micro keyboard remote, Pioneer VSX-53, Panasonic VT30 65" 3D TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
Bedroom HTPC: Zotac-ID 41 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Rii micro keyboard remote, Samsung HW-E550, Sony Google TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
find quote
David1977 Offline
Fan
Posts: 417
Joined: Jan 2011
Reputation: 6
Location: Germany
Post: #4
(2014-07-10 16:37)patseguin Wrote:  Ah, OK so if the movie has 24p support, it will just be ripped that way and if I enable that XBMC option then my TV will switch to 24p?

Correct
find quote
davelr Offline
Donor
Posts: 130
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 1
Location: Colorado
Post: #5
(2014-07-10 16:37)patseguin Wrote:  ... and if I enable that XBMC option then my TV will switch to 24p? ...

Well, maybe. It might depend on what video card you use.

My setup uses Intel HD 4000 IGP and it won't switch no matter what I do. I know the TV will switch if told to, same as with your BD player. The only way I can get the TV to playback in 24p when using XBMC is to bring up the Intel GUI control screen and manually set the refresh rate to 24p. I've searched a number of times to see if there's a command line option to do this (so I can program an AutoIt file to do it), but so far it appears that Intel, in it's wisdom, does not allow this to be changed unless you use their GUI.

If anyone knows a way around this for Intel IGP, I'd be eternally grateful for a method to fix it.
(This post was last modified: 2014-07-10 17:15 by davelr.)
find quote
uNiversal Offline
Out of Memory
Posts: 5,187
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 131
Location: Binary pulsar
Post: #6
24p has nothing to do with quality or file size or container it also has nothing to with any special format, Im not familair with the tools you use to rip, but as long as you dont touch the framerate no conversion should be done by these tools. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p for some info. Clearly your tv can switch to 24p to match said framerate but xbmc will do it only if your video card supports it. Thers some info on Linux and modlines which may or not be required if you use Linux + xbmc and a nvidia card. I wrote something about that in Configuring_resolution_via_xorg.conf it has a few related articles which you may be interested in.

So to clarify, as long as your source material is 24p framerate and your xbmc settings to automatically switch, and presuming your video crad and tv edid is doing proper handshake, you should be fine xbmc wise. "Some" videos cards however have trouble with the edid stuff though I never seen any except some Intel stuff. Again this is partly covered in wiki for ovidia cards and the Creating_and_using_edid.bin_via_xorg.conf as for @davelr tweaking the intel gpu idk.
(This post was last modified: 2014-07-10 17:35 by uNiversal.)
find quote
steelman1991 Offline
Donor
Posts: 2,417
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation: 10
Post: #7
(2014-07-10 17:15)davelr Wrote:  
(2014-07-10 16:37)patseguin Wrote:  ... and if I enable that XBMC option then my TV will switch to 24p? ...

Well, maybe. It might depend on what video card you use.

My setup uses Intel HD 4000 IGP and it won't switch no matter what I do. I know the TV will switch if told to, same as with your BD player. The only way I can get the TV to playback in 24p when using XBMC is to bring up the Intel GUI control screen and manually set the refresh rate to 24p. I've searched a number of times to see if there's a command line option to do this (so I can program an AutoIt file to do it), but so far it appears that Intel, in it's wisdom, does not allow this to be changed unless you use their GUI.

If anyone knows a way around this for Intel IGP, I'd be eternally grateful for a method to fix it.

There's no workaround necessary, and this seems to be a unique situation - otherwise the forums would be filled with threads from disgruntled intel owners, and they aren't. I use an i5 and the only thing I had to do was make sure in System/Settings/Video/Playback that "Adjust display refresh rate to match video framerate" was on, nothing else was required. Is your connection direct to your TV or through an AVR?

It might be worth posting a debug log to let the devs have a look.
find quote
patseguin Offline
Donor
Posts: 1,382
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 8
Post: #8
It seems like this is video card dependent so I'm anxious to get home and see what happens when I select match framerate in XBMC. My system is an i3 with an nVidia 640 card. It has no problem playing full 1080p and 3D content so I'm curious if it will do 24p and if I even notice a difference. The kind of thing I mean is the opening scene in Gravity with the Earth rotating and it's sort of choppy right now. I'd heard that if it played in 24p it would be smooth.

Server: Synology Diskstation 1511+ with 8x 3TB drives and DSM 5.0
Main HTPC: Home built Intel core i3, 8GB RAM, Corsair 128GB SSD, nVidia 630GTX, Rii micro keyboard remote, Pioneer VSX-53, Panasonic VT30 65" 3D TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
Bedroom HTPC: Zotac-ID 41 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Rii micro keyboard remote, Samsung HW-E550, Sony Google TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
find quote
fritsch Online
Team-XBMC Developer
Posts: 5,755
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 135
Location: Karlsruhe
Post: #9
choppy most likely has a different reason - a Debug Log will show.

Audio Engine: SPDIF has only 2 pcm channels. DTS, AC3 are encoded via those 2 channels. It's obviously clear that you are not able to change Speaker Layout when running via SPDIF.
Settings missing? Read the FAQ: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=XBM...otham)_FAQ
No help without a proper Debug Log
find quote
davelr Offline
Donor
Posts: 130
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 1
Location: Colorado
Post: #10
(2014-07-10 17:41)steelman1991 Wrote:  There's no workaround necessary, and this seems to be a unique situation - otherwise the forums would be filled with threads from disgruntled intel owners, and they aren't. I use an i5 and the only thing I had to do was make sure in System/Settings/Video/Playback that "Adjust display refresh rate to match video framerate" was on, nothing else was required. Is your connection direct to your TV or through an AVR?

It might be worth posting a debug log to let the devs have a look.

My connection is through an AVR, Denon 3808, but I don't think that's the issue. My BD player runs through the AVR as well and it does set the TV to 24p when necessary. As well, when I manually set the Intel IGP to 24p, the TV responds correctly by going into 24p.

When I get a chance later today I'll gen a debug log and see if anyone sees anything.
Thanks at least for telling me that it should work.
find quote
patseguin Offline
Donor
Posts: 1,382
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 8
Post: #11
(2014-07-10 19:52)davelr Wrote:  
(2014-07-10 17:41)steelman1991 Wrote:  There's no workaround necessary, and this seems to be a unique situation - otherwise the forums would be filled with threads from disgruntled intel owners, and they aren't. I use an i5 and the only thing I had to do was make sure in System/Settings/Video/Playback that "Adjust display refresh rate to match video framerate" was on, nothing else was required. Is your connection direct to your TV or through an AVR?

It might be worth posting a debug log to let the devs have a look.

My connection is through an AVR, Denon 3808, but I don't think that's the issue. My BD player runs through the AVR as well and it does set the TV to 24p when necessary. As well, when I manually set the Intel IGP to 24p, the TV responds correctly by going into 24p.

When I get a chance later today I'll gen a debug log and see if anyone sees anything.
Thanks at least for telling me that it should work.

I have a similar setup except Pioneer avr receiver. I actually had a Denon before it but thought the Pioneer had a little more punch to it.

Anyways, in regards to the choppiness I ripped it to ISO and played it in MPC and it was smooth as butter. I also re-ripped it in full hd and it seemed to be smoother for some reason. I'm not sure it's a bug really, maybe just the refresh rate.

Server: Synology Diskstation 1511+ with 8x 3TB drives and DSM 5.0
Main HTPC: Home built Intel core i3, 8GB RAM, Corsair 128GB SSD, nVidia 630GTX, Rii micro keyboard remote, Pioneer VSX-53, Panasonic VT30 65" 3D TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
Bedroom HTPC: Zotac-ID 41 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Rii micro keyboard remote, Samsung HW-E550, Sony Google TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
find quote
patseguin Offline
Donor
Posts: 1,382
Joined: Jan 2012
Reputation: 8
Post: #12
Ok I set the settings in XBMC. I tried a few movies and they pause a few seconds and then play. I don't see the 24p indicator come up on the tv though and if I press info on the tv remote it doesn't show 24p. I guess we are not talking about a huge deal here. I was just wondering if it was capable of that mode, or if possibly I need to re rip movies that I want in 24p.

Server: Synology Diskstation 1511+ with 8x 3TB drives and DSM 5.0
Main HTPC: Home built Intel core i3, 8GB RAM, Corsair 128GB SSD, nVidia 630GTX, Rii micro keyboard remote, Pioneer VSX-53, Panasonic VT30 65" 3D TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
Bedroom HTPC: Zotac-ID 41 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Rii micro keyboard remote, Samsung HW-E550, Sony Google TV, OpenElec 4.1.2
find quote
Warner306 Offline
Fan
Posts: 315
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 4
Post: #13
(2014-07-11 01:17)patseguin Wrote:  Ok I set the settings in XBMC. I tried a few movies and they pause a few seconds and then play. I don't see the 24p indicator come up on the tv though and if I press info on the tv remote it doesn't show 24p. I guess we are not talking about a huge deal here. I was just wondering if it was capable of that mode, or if possibly I need to re rip movies that I want in 24p.

You can't rip a movie in 24p - it was already shot that way. 24p refers to the framerate of the movie. This is dependent on the camera used when the movie was shot, not the hardware used to rip the movie - that is, if the rip you made is an exact copy of the original. The actual framerate is typically 23.9xx frames per second to be exact, but many modern TV's are capable of playing them natively. XBMC has a mechanism to play 24p movies by forcing the display to adjust it's refresh rate. Assuming your TV is capable of playing content at 24 frames and the video card in your computer is capable of switching to 24p mode, you should get native 24p playback in XBMC.
(This post was last modified: 2014-07-11 08:04 by Warner306.)
find quote
fritsch Online
Team-XBMC Developer
Posts: 5,755
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 135
Location: Karlsruhe
Post: #14
Just in case you use handbrake, it automatically selects "variable refresh rate" - be aware of this and change that setting back ...

mediainfo and Debug Log still missing

Audio Engine: SPDIF has only 2 pcm channels. DTS, AC3 are encoded via those 2 channels. It's obviously clear that you are not able to change Speaker Layout when running via SPDIF.
Settings missing? Read the FAQ: http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=XBM...otham)_FAQ
No help without a proper Debug Log
find quote
davelr Offline
Donor
Posts: 130
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 1
Location: Colorado
Post: #15
No OP, but have posted a debug log and mediainfo text file

debug - http://xbmclogs.com/show.php?id=244671

Mediainfo - http://xbmclogs.com/show.php?id=244672

The log is a fresh start, select movie, playback a couple of minutes, stop, close

The file is an MKV direct from MakeMKV (not passed through Handbrake)

During playback validated that TV was not reset to 24p, and XBMC was set to adjust rate.

Let me know if you need something else. Thanks
find quote