[Traker1001]

Hello I am fairly new to XBMC/KODI. First I would like to say, I think the name change is awesome. I believe/hope it will add a refresh to the xbmc project. I also believe/hope it will help when I try to explain the software to people as I will no longer have to worry about confusion as to why Xbox is in the name. Anyways onto the real reason for my post.

The reason I am new to Kodi/XBMC is I am Visually Impaired, Live around, work with and associate with many others who are also V.I. and Blind. Up until recently using any kind of media player, DVR, or any sort of thing has been completely out of reach for us. Imagine the W.A.F. when your wife cannot see the menus, LOL. There unfortunately just has not been really anything developed and maintained that allows us to do what many take for granted.

Recently with the collaboration of a few amazingly wonderful developers and the continued development by the awesome Ruuk, A addon to provide Text to speech services to read the XBMC/Kodi menu system has made this media center what is probably the first and only media software that is truly accessible to those with vision problems. My family has been using this software for the past several months and I have setup, Help setup and generally assisted many others in using it. I can tell you where it is now, It works very very very well. I mean better than I had ever hoped.

One of the biggest issues I have seen however is installation of the addon. As when XBMC first comes up there is no speech at all until the addon is installed. Now there are fairly simple ways of installing this separately but none that would help as much as combining this as an optio into the initial installation. My hope for this thread is 2 fold.

Number 1, Bring this addon to the attention (If they are not already aware of it) of developers, Make developers aware what it means to us blind folk while also pointing out that XBMC/Kodi has the distinction of being what is the First and only Media software truly accessible to us.

and Number 2, and bit more importantly to us, A plea to start combining the Addon as an Option in the installer. What I mean by this is I.E. When you start the initial installation of XBMC/Kodi, You can select advanced options, Then select additional items to install/not install such as PVR addons and Touch skin. Well We would love to see the option for Text to speech accessibility in there.

Thank you folks very much for some wonderful software.

[Martijn]

Number 1. We are certainly aware and highly appreciate the done effort. Natethomas has prepared a blog post bringing it to public attention. Recent events have slightly delayed it. As for the installation part, i'm not sure we can do anything to really help on that.

Number 2. I'm sure ruuk will point out any possible remaining issues and they will likely be solved. It should remain an add-on however if some things are not accessible for it we can certainly find a way.

@ruuk
I'm sure would appreciate if you would put this in our repo when you feel ready.

[Traker1001]

Hello, few things I forgot to put in my original post here. You can find out more information about the Text to speech from these threads:

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=117199 ( believe the goodness starts around page 4 or 5)
And the official development thread,
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=196757

I would also like to point out that while this addon is primarily focused on adding accessibility to the rest of us, I have chatted with a few who hope to and some who have used it for headless systems to manage stuff like being able to play music, books, plays and such audio w/o having to actually look at the screens also recently chatted/helped a guy who has integrated this as part of there in car setup.

I am happy to answer any questions. Thanks again folks.

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Number 1. We are certainly aware and highly appreciate the done effort. Natethomas has prepared a blog post bringing it to public attention. Recent events have slightly delayed it. As for the installation part, i'm not sure we can do anything to really help on that.

Number 2. I'm sure ruuk will point out any possible remaining issues and they will likely be solved. It should remain an add-on however if some things are not accessible for it we can certainly find a way.

@ruuk
I'm sure would appreciate if you would put this in our repo when you feel ready.

I am glad to know that you all aware of it and what it means to us. I would also like you know that we really do greatly appreciate you the developers of this amazing program.

Wow your response was fast, Thanks. Can't wait to see the blog post about it.
What would it take to get this at some point combined with initial installation file as an advances option? Is there anything I can do to help this happen? I really believe it could make a huge difference for many of the less technical folks.

[ruuk]

As for the installation part, i'm not sure we can do anything to really help on that.

Is the possibility of having the addon enabled/installed as a Kodi install option something we can't do because of technical reasons or maintenance reasons or something else?
I feel awkward about asking about this because I don't want to seem like I think that an addon I wrote deserves some special treatment, but as an accessibility issue the situation is like a sighted user having a blank screen unless they install an addon.
One problem with having it optional during install is that it only works for platforms with an actual installer. Since the addon can already be enabled/disabled via a mapped key, another possibility would be to have the addon included disabled (or have the addon disable itself on first run if that is not possible) and then it would have no effect unless the user enabled it with the mapped key.

[Ned Scott]

Considering it is an accessibility option, I'm 100% in favor of either including it by default and using a default mapped key to enable/disable

or

putting some kind of checkbox in the Windows installer (since that's really the only platform that has an "installer") to include it or not.

[wsnipex]

on the linux(ubuntu) side, it'd be rather easy to package the addon into a .deb package. That way users can easily install it along with xbmc itself and it'd be working straight from the first kodi/xbmc launch.

[Memphiz]

I think letting the users install this addon should be totally out of discussion. If we really want to do a serious blog post and if we really want to be identified as accessible media center there is only one (easy) solution.

1. This addon has to go into our repo
2. This addon has to come pre-packaged on all platforms it supports
3. It needs a default keyboard mapping to activate it. (maybe not - depends on how easy an v.i. person is able to enable an addon blindly).

Basically same like we do with some other addons. Making an accessible addon optional when it is needed for accessing Kodi is not an option.

[ruuk]

I think letting the users install this addon should be totally out of discussion. If we really want to do a serious blog post and if we really want to be identified as accessible media center there is only one (easy) solution.

1. This addon has to go into our repo

Which is where it is soon headed. It's only recently gotten to the point where I've felt it was about ready. It's had some time out in the wild without any issues reported. I'll be double checking it with an eye towards official repository submission and then I'll submit it.

2. This addon has to come pre-packaged on all platforms it supports

This would certainly make it more consistent between platforms and simplifies the process for the visually impaired.

3. It needs a default keyboard mapping to activate it. (maybe not - depends on how easy an v.i. person is able to enable an addon blindly).

Without a having a default keyboard mapping, enabling the addon would be nearly impossible without someone sighted to help and I get the impression this is something most visually impaired users would greatly like to avoid. Heck, it's hard enough for sighted users to figure out how to enable a disabled addon

Basically same like we do with some other addons. Making an accessible addon optional when it is needed for accessing Kodi is not an option.

I was hoping that members of the Kodi team would weigh in on this, and thank you all for taking the time. While I know that I and the users who need it think accessibility should be part of Kodi, it is of course ultimately up to the team whether it should.
I realize every addition to the core install of Kodi has an impact on various team members in terms of maintenance and support. It is my goal to minimize that as much as possible.

[jmarshall]

Agreed, it should be available, and as easily enable-able as possible by default.

The install bit is pretty easy (we can bundle - just needs a small bit of scripting work)

What (if anything) do you need from our side to make it as convenient as we can for all users of XBMC/Kodi?

[ruuk]

Agreed, it should be available, and as easily enable-able as possible by default.

The install bit is pretty easy (we can bundle - just needs a small bit of scripting work)

What (if anything) do you need from our side to make it as convenient as we can for all users of XBMC/Kodi?

What I think would be ideal would require:
1. The addon included disabled (If having the addon included already disabled is not possible, the addon could also disable itself on first run.)
2. A key mapped for enabling it

The addon already includes the ability to be enabled/disabled from a mapped key with:

Code:

XBMC.RunScript(special://home/addons/service.xbmc.tts/enabler.py)

This should be easy for those who need it with almost no impact on those who don't.

I can add a notification that text to speech is enabled with a message about the key to disable it in case someone hits the key accidentally.

I suppose it might also be reasonable to add a button to the Confluence Home window for toggling speech. This would mostly be useful for sighted users or someone helping out a non-sighted user without a keyboard.

@Traker1001 - let me know if that all sounds good or not from your perspective.

[Traker1001]

Well, I think many of us would be happy to see (No pun intended, LOL) the addon included either way. It'd be great if it was installed by default into XBMC as long as it didn't interfere with others or cause anyone a headache, Then all we'd have to do is press F12 (or whatever the key changed to) to fire it up.

My concern with this one would be of future headaches that could be caused if there was ever an incompatibility for what ever reason with a future release, Especially when it comes to like Alpha releases of xbmc. Now while I am learning slowly about coding, I don't know what or even if that possibility truly exist. Also I'd be worried that those who don't need it complaining about having to uninstall it. Also one of my concerns for example would be lower end devices with limited space and power where the addon doesn't work very well or at all, I.E. Apple tv and droid boxes.

I do however, imagine this way It would also most likely distribute out to and gain hopefully larger support for the linux distros that don't actually require install of xbmc. Also need to keep in mind that some of the other linux distros actually require couple other things to be installed for the addon to work, I.E. Mpg123 or/and Espeak.

However, on the other hand, Giving people the option to toggle it to be installed through the installer I think would be fine. All the screen readers read the installer just fine, Its a real easy matter to select advanced and check TTS addon. This way it isn't confusing anyone who doesn't know what it is there for, it can come up speaking immediately after it is installed, nothing required to be pressed at all. And could just "Not" be installed if there were any issues with compatibility or such.

However, I can tell you This is an awesome addon for a awesome media center that has opened a whole new host of options for many of us who had none before this came along. And I/We are greatly appreciative of everything, And truly do appreciate what ever gets decided in this manner. We would love to see this implemented in any direction that is decide.

[ruuk]

Well, I think many of us would be happy to see (No pun intended, LOL) the addon included either way. It'd be great if it was installed by default into XBMC as long as it didn't interfere with others or cause anyone a headache, Then all we'd have to do is press F12 (or whatever the key changed to) to fire it up.

My concern with this one would be of future headaches that could be caused if there was ever an incompatibility for what ever reason with a future release, Especially when it comes to like Alpha releases of xbmc. Now while I am learning slowly about coding, I don't know what or even if that possibility truly exist. Also I'd be worried that those who don't need it complaining about having to uninstall it. Also one of my concerns for example would be lower end devices with limited space and power where the addon doesn't work very well or at all, I.E. Apple tv and droid boxes.

As long as the addon is included disabled, this shouldn't be an issue except for people who enable it. Also, the addon is only 1.4 MB installed which shouldn't be an issue.

I do however, imagine this way It would also most likely distribute out to and gain hopefully larger support for the linux distros that don't actually require install of xbmc. Also need to keep in mind that some of the other linux distros actually require couple other things to be installed for the addon to work, I.E. Mpg123 or/and Espeak.

Since it supports a number of Linux speech engines I am assuming it is likely that one of them will already be installed if the user is blind. For sighted users I can add a help message that explains that it needs an engine to be installed if the addon doesn't detect one. For visually impaired users I could possibly either play a recorded message (the drawback being only in the language recorded) or I could user the Google api to create the speech and play the output via the XBMC player (which would only work with an internet connection). On the other hand, one could assume that Linux users should be savvy enough to figure this out I also suppose that espeak could be added as a recommends or suggests dependency which would at least give the linux user a clue as to what is needed.

However, on the other hand, Giving people the option to toggle it to be installed through the installer I think would be fine. All the screen readers read the installer just fine, Its a real easy matter to select advanced and check TTS addon. This way it isn't confusing anyone who doesn't know what it is there for, it can come up speaking immediately after it is installed, nothing required to be pressed at all. And could just "Not" be installed if there were any issues with compatibility or such.

I like the idea of a checkbox on install to enable installation (and have it enabled by default), but this only works on windows. Debian based Linuxes could have an optional addon package, but this leaves nothing for OSX (or in the future, Android when I get something working there).
I don't know how possible it would be, but if there was a checkbox for automatically enabling it on install combined with it being included, I think that would be optimal.
Since a disabled addon only shows up in the list of disabled addons and otherwise doesn't use any resources, compatibility shouldn't be an issue unless the user enables it.

Also, I'm sure no one will hesitate to let me know of any issues with alpha or beta versions of Kodi so that they can be fixed before the next release.

What I'm wondering is which method do you think would make it easiest for blind users to get speech working?

Pre-Installed disabled:
- Pro: Same method for all platforms
- Con: Requires knowing what key to press to get speech (Though maybe would could get a message stating this in the installer)

Optional install:
- Pro: Speaks automatically on Kodi startup
- Con: Requires added package install on linux, no method for OSX or Android.

Also, to any other interested parties here, I'm not making any assumptions as to what can or will be done. I'm just shooting out ideas here

[wsnipex]

imho pre-installed is the way to go if we want/need to support it on all platforms.

[ironic_monkey]

ruuk can you please tag your versions, i don't like taking a random revision. thanks.

[ruuk]

ruuk can you please tag your versions, i don't like taking a random revision. thanks.

Done for the latest, and will do for future versions.

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ruuk can you please tag your versions, i don't like taking a random revision. thanks.

Also, out of curiosity, what are you specifically doing - since I don't yet know who you are