[maddib]

Dear developers,

Since several weeks, I test the current xbmc/kodi client on a Mac/OS X. And I'm still hesitating to replace my conventional receiver/scaler by e.g. a Mac mini with running xbmc.
There's one major reason why I haven't done so - the rather limited picture quality esp. when SD video (DVBS or DVD) is displayed by xbmc.
No matter which of the numerous deinterlacing and scaling options you use, a conventional scaler of a modern tv set or a receiver beats xbmc's picture quality by far.
I had to learn that xbmc is obviously not able to use an interlaced video mode for display. There are several modes in the list, but all progressive... :-(. Thus, you are more or less forced to use the xbmc's internal deinterlacer. I understand that fiddling with some configs to force interlace output alone is not a solution as long as xbmc 'thinks' it displays progressive.
I can imagine that supporting interlace modes is not done in a few days. But, imagine how much picture quality would benefit from it! And think of the growing sitze of tv sets in everyone's home... it really makes a difference. If xbmc can't reach the higher class of pq, let it be done by some other unit, i.e. the tv set, receiver, beamer or external scaler - they CAN do it - if they are fed with the native resolution/mode of the video.
One thing is for sure - as long as xbmc/kodi is not able to display a better picture I won't go for it.
It's sad somehow because xbmc has quite a good base with many ideas and already good implementations.

Please, think about it - not too long ;-).


Thanks for any feedback
maddib

[wsnipex]

not sure if deinterlacing works properly on xbmc for OSX. Give OpenElec or Xbmcbuntu with a helix nightly a try.
Yadif (setting: deinterlace) has very good quality.

see http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=165707 for details. There are also some comparisons ans screenshots in that thread.

[FernetMenta]

Dear user,

If you observe this you may just be on the wrong platform. I use Linux and I can tell you that XBMC beats every TV set in regard of upscaling and deinterlacing quality.

Please don't judge Kodi(XBMC) by the limited features of some platforms for what reason ever this is the cause. Decide first for the features you would like to have, then for the hardware, not the other way round.

Cheers,
Not an OSX dev

[maddib]

Hhmm, good to read that there really ARE substantial xbmc feature differences depending of the used platform. But... where to find some kind of feature matrix..? I don't have the time and hardware to test xbmc on different platforms to decide what platform meets my needs most.
So, if there is a yadif deinterlacing option for linux which produces outstanding pq, I hope it will find its way to the OS X port :-). Just to make xbmc a bit more uniform ;-).

thanks again
maddib

[Memphiz]

hey non-osx devs - maybe you could have a meaning about this:

https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/8878...7d581159e4

There you see why it is not enabled for osx (anymore) - no judgement from me.

[maddib]

hey non-osx devs - maybe you could have a meaning about this:

https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/8878...7d581159e4

There you see why it is not enabled for osx (anymore) - no judgement from me.

well, please be aware of how old your linked comments are. more than 2 years...

[Memphiz]

yeah so? (macminis still got i5's with 2.4ghz no?)

[MrMC]

still applicable today.

[maddib]

still applicable today.

Current Mac minis use up to 2.3 GHz quad-core i7. This should be enough for a bit more image processing.

But, we are about to leave the thread's original message. If it should be too hard to improve pq in xbmc itself, let it do external hardware as described above. You 'only' have to output more flexible (interlaced) video modes ;-).

[FernetMenta]

hey non-osx devs - maybe you could have a meaning about this:

https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/8878...7d581159e4

There you see why it is not enabled for osx (anymore) - no judgement from me.

I would try reverting it. Running Linux my Celeron 1820T has no problem in sw decoding + yadif 1080i50. CPU is approx at 50% then.

If an i5 cannot cope with it running OSX there must be something wrong.

[Memphiz]

Found an old branch of mine which adds support for interlaced modes on osx. See

https://github.com/Memphiz/xbmc/commits/interlacedosx

I am doing a testbuild of this for you to test. (keep in mind that this code is from end of 2013 - better backup your XBMC folder before trying it). Will come up with the download link once its done.

Here is the test file:

http://mirrors.xbmc.org/test-builds/osx/...x-i386.dmg

Has 2 added settings (allow interlaced resolutions and allow unsafe resolutions). Keep in minde that unsafe resolutions are treated as "bad for your hardware" based on the api documentation from apple. Your own risk.

[maddib]

Found an old branch of mine which adds support for interlaced modes on osx. See

https://github.com/Memphiz/xbmc/commits/interlacedosx

I am doing a testbuild of this for you to test. (keep in mind that this code is from end of 2013 - better backup your XBMC folder before trying it). Will come up with the download link once its done.

Here is the test file:

http://mirrors.xbmc.org/test-builds/osx/...x-i386.dmg

Has 2 added settings (allow interlaced resolutions and allow unsafe resolutions). Keep in minde that unsafe resolutions are treated as "bad for your hardware" based on the api documentation from apple. Your own risk.

Wow! Thanks a lot for your positive info, Memphiz. That's far more than I expected. I'll enjoy testing the build.
Thanks again
maddib

[maddib]

Hi Memphiz,

Back from testing your interlaced build for mac/osx.
Here the results...

The first diffetence to the current Kodi build is the listed 1080i display mode. In deed, 1080i is used for output. BTW, what is the option 'Use fullscreen window rather than true fullscreen' for? Whenever I turn it off the TV screen is black, though there's a video signal - but black...

I turned off the xbmc internal deinterlacer, so interlaced videos are displayed in 1080i. Then first try with a 576i sd video from a dvbs stream. Keep in mind that the 576i video is scaled to 1080i by the internal scaler. Horizontal picture shifts show visible comb effect no matter what scaling option is set in xbmc.
So, just placed an osx finder window over the xbmc video and moved it horizontally. The window doesn't show any comb effect. This means the TV set's deinterlacer works properly.

So, what may cause the comb effect with interlaced videos in xbmc? Are the xbmc's scalers aware of the final interlaced output or do they still assume progressive output? Do these scalers expect progressive material in order to output the 'right' picture? If so, they obviously need to have the xbmc's deinterlacer enabled. But that's exactly what I wanted to avoid.
It seems that the xbmc's scalers do not 'know' of interlaced ouput. That could explain the comb effect which shouldn't be there.
For the 1080i video mode itself, used by osx video output there's no problem deinterlacing it by the TV, without any comb effect. So, the issue must be somewhere within the video processing in xbmc.

Unfortunately, I don't see this 'interlaced' build as a solution.

Could you or anyone else give some feedback on that?

Thanks again,
maddib

[FernetMenta]

The approach of output of 1080i won't work. scaling must not be done prior to deinterlacing. interlaced content is either top or bottom field first. I don't see anything here which influences the output in relation to this variable.

[maddib]

That sounds logical, somehow.
But, that would mean, you're forced to enable xbmc's deinterlacer in order to output interlaced videos in a reasonable manner/quality, right?
The only way to bypass it would be to switch to a video output mode matching the original video (resolution, i/p, frame rate) each time a different video stream is processed. I don't see such an option in xbmc.
Which would lead us back to a better built-in deinterlacer, e.g. yadif(x2) for the mac port...?

Thanks for any feedback
maddib

PS: If xbmc - usually - wants to output in progressive, and supports interlaced video source material - where's the sense in disabling xbmc's built-in deinterlacer...? It wouldn't deliver a reasonable picture, unless scaling is not necessary or any video material is progressive...