[fr3ddie]

Hello all,

as I haven't had any answer to the bug report I reported in the other section
of the forum, I'll try to post a clear feature request.

The request is, shortly, to have a basic audio mixer in the XBMC/Kodi GUI.
This is because, currently, there is no audio mixer at all in XBMC and the only
possibility for an un-skilled user is to switch output among available audio cards.

This is, of course, a big limit for a media center software because many users
use XBMC also for music listening, not only video playing.

For example, almost any modern audio card has, at least, one headphone out that is,
currently, only selectable as output using amixer on the CLI, there is not any
control in the GUI.

Another fairly clear example is the balance and fader adjustment: just please
consider that there is a lot of people needing "balance" or "fader" controls
(e.g. x.1 audio speakers setups) in order to adjust improper speakers'
placement (too far/close to the listener or at different distances by the listener)
or rooms with poor acustic response.

Thank you for reading this, I hope some XBMC developer will give us their opinion.

[un1versal]

You mean something like https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/4402

Its being worked on, maybe for v15 though.

btw dont post on github in case you feel tempted use this http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=186857 for discussions.

[fr3ddie]

You mean something like https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/4402

Its being worked on, maybe for v15 though.

btw dont post on github in case you feel tempted use this http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=186857 for discussions.

Very nice addon but it's not what I was referring to: that is a DSP addon/plugin, not
a "mixer", so it is something that modifies the original audio signal with pre- or post-processing
on the digital data/analog signal.

A mixer is something that just allows the user to configure the sound card parameters (its
own parameters, without modifiyng the original audio signal/data); thus, using a mixer,
you can just:

- select active audio output/input
- mute/unmute and change volume of the output/input
- modify balance and fader adjustment (modify signal power on a channel)
- miscellaneous settings offered by the particular audio card (e.g. headphone impedance selection, DAC quantization noise filter shape, other...)
(- of course, remember settings across machine reboots)

without modifying the original audio signal (it's just a matter of signal "power" and "toggles" that the sound card hardware applies).

This is obtainable just parsing the output of "amixer -c <card_number>" and, I guess, it's what the current "mixer addon"
tries to do, but missing many parameters and working only for the sound card recognized as index #0 by amixer (if you have multiple sound cards you can control only #0 and not "fully").

I hope to have been clearer than in my first post, sorry.

[un1versal]

There is a addon for some of that, but idk if it is in any working state.

See Add-on:XBMC_Audio_Mixer (wiki) But thats only for linux alsa and no idea if it works or IF it will break anything.

Now keeping those things updated and working is another matter the source for that is at https://github.com/XBMC-Addons/script.xbmc.audio.mixer

[fr3ddie]

There is a addon for some of that, but idk if it is in any working state.

See Add-on:XBMC_Audio_Mixer (wiki) But thats only for linux alsa and no idea if it works or IF it will break anything.

It is exactly the addon I was talking about in my post: I can tell you, as said, it unfortunately doesn't work (well)...
It misses many parameters and it only works for the "first" (index "0" in amixer output) sound card in the system.

So I guess the feature request remains...

[un1versal]

Yes, the problem is that is not a feature request as it already exists no?, What you want is someone to fix it up and extend it if necessary, which is why linked source code.

There is a reason why its not really maintained and that will affect the feature request as is, no one has interest/time for keeping it up, something most projects are in danger of. Therefore by extension if this existing project is not maintained what makes you think someone would want to redo it from scratch?

You should have linked the addon in your first post and made it clearer that this is what you looking for but as is doesn't work. Something it wasn't clear on your second post either.

Another way to look at it is, The addon was originally developed by team xbmc, so if it doesn't work you need to make a bug report and see if its fixed or what reply to that bug report is.

@fritsch is one of the main audio developer(s) maybe he can shed some light there.

[fr3ddie]

OK, let me say something about this situation...

Please consider that it is very difficult for one that is not involved in XBMC development to understand the correct
place to post something. I have originally posted on the OpenELEC github channel for bug reports,
then they said me I was in the wrong place (since alsa/kernel can correctly manage the sound card) so I posted on XBMC forum in the bug report area... but I was ignored so I posted
here something that, also being a feature request, can successfully solve the original problem.
Now you're saying to me that it is not the correct way because an addon already exists and I should have posted a bug report
for the addon... sorry but I am confused, moreover I don't know the relationship between addons and XBMC "main" source tree....

Anyway, the topic is complex, because it is a "mix" of things. I'll try to share my thoughts.

- first consideration is the fact that XBMC doesn't show the headphone outputs of the sound card (they're 2, in this case)
and it is a XBMC bug: in fact, as XBMC shows the other 2 outputs of the card (Analog and SPDIF) on the Audio settings,
it should also show the other 2 related to headphones (they're also sound card available outputs);
- second consideration is, in my opinion, a feature request (basic mixer) that may be assigned to XBMC or to OpenELEC,
I can't judge precisely: in fact I think that a basic mixer is something that an OS should provide and, if not the OS,
the "audio" management application should, but definitively not an addon as it is a too basic feature to be left to an addon.
Of course these are my opinions.
- third consideration is the fact that I can, of course, open a bug to the addon but just for the missing mixer controls,
i.e. muting/umuting headphones, headphone impedance selection, et cetera, not for the absence of 2 sound card outputs from the "main" audio settings of XBMC (as stated in the first consideration). Moreover, I have to say that this last consideration appears if I know that there is a strict relationships between addons and main XBMC tree and agree to think that this is not a feature that should be present in the "main" and not in an addon.

As previously said, in my opinion it is a complex topic, it cannot be easily marked as a bug in an addon.

[fr3ddie]

- first consideration is the fact that XBMC doesn't show the headphone outputs of the sound card (they're 2, in this case)
and it is a XBMC bug: in fact, as XBMC shows the other 2 outputs of the card (Analog and SPDIF) on the Audio settings,
it should also show the other 2 related to headphones (they're also sound card available outputs);
- second consideration is, in my opinion, a feature request (basic mixer) that may be assigned to XBMC or to OpenELEC,
I can't judge precisely: in fact I think that a basic mixer is something that an OS should provide and, if not the OS,
the "audio" management application should, but definitively not an addon as it is a too basic feature to be left to an addon.

Let me say something more on the 1st and 2nd considerations:
- please consider that the sound card makes no difference among sound outputs: analog, digital and headphones are "just outputs" it can switch over. So the XBMC audio settings panel should display all of them, not just a subset (and this is the bug).
- about the basic mixer, just think to the Windows mixer or to PulseAudio+Linux mixer panels: it is something the OS/audio management software provide out-of-the-box, not some addon or package to install later (of course referring to "desktop" distros, I'm not on the server side).
In my opinion this is a "basic" feature of a multimedia station, instead a software DSP is something "advanced" and it is correctly an addon.

So now, please, don't judge this as "it's just an addon bug" because it clearly isn't.

I understand there aren't so many developers and that a few are interested on the audio "side" of XBMC (and unfortunately I can't help on this other than with bug reports or support in testing, 'cause I'm not a developer) but we shouldn't do as ostrichs, it is not good for the excellent product XBMC is.

[un1versal]

Try to follow this up. And see if it makes sense to you.

Openelec is a Linux distribution that is made especially to ship preconfigured XBMC) Nothing to do with addons development or fixing existing addons therefore issues not related to Openelec dont belong there)

Addons -- are extensions to XBMC the main program -- Usually addon reports should goto the addon developers/authors as they are responsible for maintaining them.

Look at Add-on:XBMC_Audio_Mixer (wiki) The AUTHOR Team XBMC. Therefore it is a report that would go into http://forum.xbmc.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=52 (because its Linux and for maximum exposure) however if you want FEATURES adding to addon this is probably the best place...

You posted a "bug report" in Hardware sub forums, http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=205417 which I understand the logic and confusion, but hardly the place to post bug reports, chances are none of the developers monitor those sub-forums for bug reports. Ill ask for it to be moved. See HOW-TO:Submit_a_bug_report (wiki) in any case. (ive asked for it to be moved)

Also while you progress here on this community and looking at your posts, you make huge WALLS of text anyone reading it its hard to understand and gets VERY confusing.

No judgement Im trying to guide you to correct place and maybe get you some exposure, since youre new here and only just becoming familiar with the way these boards operate.

On that note Im asking someone to move your original thread to Linux forums where there are more people reading the boards.

[fr3ddie]

Sorry but... why are you handling me as a dumb man?

I have exposed my thoughts, although maybe complexly at the beginning, and you have answered to none of them, you are just saying that I'm talking about a bug in an addon.

As stated before, one of the things I wrote *is not a bug in an addon, it is a bug in XBMC* and the other one *is a feature request*, that you and the other developers can obviously reject.
If you continue to refuse this *facts* I don't want to continue any further with the discussion, I'm wasting my efforts to help the development (as far as I can).

Thank you anyway for your time and patience.

[un1versal]

My answers were

You mean something like https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/4402

Its being worked on, maybe for v15 though.

btw dont post on github in case you feel tempted use this http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=186857 for discussions.

There is a addon for some of that, but idk if it is in any working state.

See Add-on:XBMC_Audio_Mixer (wiki) But thats only for linux alsa and no idea if it works or IF it will break anything.

Now keeping those things updated and working is another matter the source for that is at https://github.com/XBMC-Addons/script.xbmc.audio.mixer

I was trying to understand and get to the bottom of your issues while trying to point you to right direction.

FYI Im not a developer, but I have asked the audio developer to look at your posts.

Clearly this is not going very well so Ill give up now. good luck.

[fr3ddie]

My answers were
[...]
Clearly this is not going very well so Ill give up now. good luck.

Just to say thank you for your effort.

Please also consider the ones you quoted are not you *only* answers...

Anyway thank you for your time.

[FernetMenta]

From an architectural point of view those mixer functions are outside of XBMC. There is too much platform dependency as if this would make sense to implement in the application.
But there are already solutions like pulse audio. XBMC sends all audio to PA sound server and you can use mixing capabilities of PA. We are likely to support jack in the future which gives you additional functions.

Addon developers still can integrate the mixer controls into XBMC's ui but the actual functions are external.

[fr3ddie]

From an architectural point of view those mixer functions are outside of XBMC. There is too much platform dependency as if this would make sense to implement in the application.
But there are already solutions like pulse audio. XBMC sends all audio to PA sound server and you can use mixing capabilities of PA. We are likely to support jack in the future which gives you additional functions.

I perfectly agree with you. This is why I have originally posted on the OpenELEC github (although erroneously specifying the issue): basic mixing functionalities are, usually, deferred to the OS (just see the examples you proposed and the Windows mixer), and XBMC works both on *NIX systems and on Windows, so I understand it is very difficult and of great effort to create a platform-independent implementation.
Moreover, basic mixing is something very closely related to the specific sound card hardware so, in my opinion, it is best to allocate this to the OS.

Anyway, I still believe that don't showing all available audio outputs of a sound card is a XBMC bug (as stated previously).
Maybe I should open a problem report on some other area of the XBMC forum? Please indicate me which area as I don't want to get wrong again and don't like to be bumped around all the forums.....

Thank you very much

[FernetMenta]

please point me to the bug report you created, i will have a closer look

EDIT: ideally you create a ticket on trac http://trac.xbmc.org and cc me