[wesk05]

1) So still trying to get a handle on it with Android, do you or don't you need a Dolby / DTS licence to decode HD audio and output as PCM ?
I always of the understanding you did as even Android Apps such MXPlayer would produce silence without such Licensing.
2) How does dcadec then fit into the picture on Android platforms then ?

I think it's quite simple: if Kodi is decoding - no license required (in the truest sense, legality of this is debatable in the U.S., esp., for the HD audio codecs the patents of which will expire only between 2020-2032).

Irrespective of the OS any other player that relies on a hardware based audio decoder or a non open source library will require a license to decode Dolby/DTS audio.

dcadec/FFmpeg 3.0 fits in exactly like other OSes.

[Koying]

1) So still trying to get a handle on it with Android, do you or don't you need a Dolby / DTS licence to decode HD audio and output as PCM ?
I always of the understanding you did as even Android Apps such MXPlayer would produce silence without such Licensing.
2) How does dcadec then fit into the picture on Android platforms then ?

1) You definitely do. It's unclear to me whether a device license is sufficient or if Kodi would need it's own license, but there is nothing specific to Android in this, really.
2) dcadec is the library that decodes DTS-MA to multi-channel PCM, nothing less nothing more. The other formats like AC3/EAC3/DTS are already decoded in ffmpeg since long.

BTW, speaking of "LPCM passthrough" is a complete non-sense

PCM is basically the digital representation of sound waves. It's the elementary format just before transformation to actual sound.
It's transferred over 1-to-N channels to the device actually doing the transformation (AVR or any kind of DAC (digital-to-analogic converter)).
PCM is mostly produced by decoding a digital format (MP3 / FLAC / AC3 / DTS, ...) or is just stored as-is (WAV / AIFF, ...).

"Passthrough" is the process of passing-through encoded (=AC3/DTS/DTS-MA, ...) streams unaltered to a device (eg AVR), which will decode it to PCM (and in most case also do the DAC part to produce sound).

Bottom-line: There are only 2 notions
- Multi-channel PCM (1=Mono; 2=Stereo, up to whatever, really, but 7.1 HD is 8 channels )
- Passthrough, which can be "Optical (SPDIF/TOSLINK)-compatible", on 2 channels for AC3/DTS, or "HDMI-compatible", on 8 channels for DTS-MA / TrueHD.

[Koying]

I think it's quite simple: if Kodi is decoding - no license required (in the truest sense, legality of this is debatable in the U.S., esp., for the HD audio codecs the patents of which will expire only between 2020-2032).

Irrespective of the OS any other player that relies on a hardware based audio decoder or a non open source library will require a license to decode Dolby/DTS audio.

Oh, are you on a technical pov?
When we speak license, we speak about legality only, really.

Besides legality, the question makes no sense, as Kodi uses nothing from the device regarding sound decoding.
So there is zero point in buying a box with "licenses" for Kodi, other than be ok with the law (maybe...)

[wesk05]

Oh, are you on a technical pov?
When we speak license, we speak about legality only, really.

Besides legality, the question makes no sense, as Kodi uses nothing from the device regarding sound decoding.
So there is zero point in buying a box with "licenses" for Kodi, other than be ok with the law (maybe...)

The open source decoders are products of reverse engineering and infringes upon intellectual property rights and is so not considered legal within the ambit of U.S. patent laws.

Also, the licenses are decoder specific (if the product contains multiple decoders). Having one licensed decoder doesn't necessarily give you the rights to use another one without license.

[Koying]

The open source decoders are products of reverse engineering and infringes upon intellectual property rights and is so not considered legal within the ambit of U.S. patent laws.

Also, the licenses are decoder specific (if the product contains multiple decoders). Having one licensed decoder doesn't necessarily give you the rights to use another one without license.

Well, yeah, no arguing on that and basically what I say. You need a license per decoder to be legal. Having a Dolby license obviously doesn't entitle you to decode DTS
Now, whether reverse-engineered decoders are legal even with a license is further than I'm ready to go on the legal side

[wesk05]

Well, yeah, no arguing on that and basically what I say. You need a license per decoder to be legal. Having a Dolby license obviously doesn't entitle you to decode DTS
Now, whether reverse-engineered decoders are legal even with a license is further than I'm ready to go on the legal side

I was referring to FFmepg decoder vs reference decoder license. Having a licensed Dolby reference decoder in the device doesn't really give the "OK" to use FFmpeg's Dolby decoder. You can get the open source decoder licensed if you pay the necessary licensing fee, annual fee and the loyalties (All this pertains to the use of open source decoders in the U.S.)

[hansolo]

The open source decoders are products of reverse engineering and infringes upon intellectual property rights and is so not considered legal within the ambit of U.S. patent laws.

Also, the licenses are decoder specific (if the product contains multiple decoders). Having one licensed decoder doesn't necessarily give you the rights to use another one without license.

Well, yeah, no arguing on that and basically what I say. You need a license per decoder to be legal. Having a Dolby license obviously doesn't entitle you to decode DTS
Now, whether reverse-engineered decoders are legal even with a license is further than I'm ready to go on the legal side

I'm curious, AAC surround also needs license?
I find curious that many Android boxes lack AAC surround (only outputs stereo PCM), Himedia Q5 included.

[wesk05]

I'm curious, AAC surround also needs license?
I find curious that many Android boxes lack AAC surround (only outputs stereo PCM), Himedia Q5 included.

Included in Android: http://developer.android.com/guide/appen...rmats.html

[viendongshop]

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http://viendongshop.vn/minix-neo-u1.html

[noggin]

BTW, speaking of "LPCM passthrough" is a complete non-sense

That's a little harsh. I have some Blu-rays and DVDs with LPCM audio tracks. If these are played back and output 1:1 bit perfect I'd describe that as pass-through too.

In my book passthrough is "passing through" the data without altering it in any way. Decode or transcode is where you modify it - changing it from one codec (say DTS-HD MA, FLAC or AAC) to another (PCM)

LPCM is, at the end of the day, just one way of sampling analogue audio. There are others - LPCM isn't specifically the only way of carrying sampled audio in the digital domain (You can use DSD for instance, or use non-linear PCM sampling, differential PCM, adaptive differential PCM etc.)

[Koying]

In my book passthrough is "passing through" the data without altering it in any way. Decode or transcode is where you modify it - changing it from one codec (say DTS-HD MA, FLAC or AAC) to another (PCM)

Well, yeah, that can be an interpretation, I guess.
I think the common understanding is "passing encoded data through", though. It's already confusing enough

[noggin]

In my book passthrough is "passing through" the data without altering it in any way. Decode or transcode is where you modify it - changing it from one codec (say DTS-HD MA, FLAC or AAC) to another (PCM)

Well, yeah, that can be an interpretation, I guess.
I think the common understanding is "passing encoded data through", though. It's already confusing enough

Ah - but PCM is encoded isn't it You can chose lots of different ways of carrying 'uncompressed' sampled audio - you have to chose a sampling/encoding standard. 'Compressed' might be a better word. (Though then you hit the fact that some PCM standards use audio compression. NICAM was a well known one that used 14 to 10 bit dynamic range compression)

[h3llhound]

Have their been any significant changes to the software/format support to update the OP? I am eye'ing this machine to replace my WDTV Live and possibly my chromecast. I use the WDTV, where I wish i had HEVC support, to stream movies/series from my Synology NAS. And my Chromecast to stream videos/audio over the internet with help of my android phone(youtube/netflix/Synology DS Audio).

I read that it doesnt support flac passthrough(which my receiver could decode) and I have most of my music as flac format. Will this be an issue with the playback/playability of my music or will KODI decode the flac and send it to my receiver?

[wrxtasy]

Not that I have seen, best bet is ask on the U1 forums themselves.

This will interest you:
Android Hi-res 16-bit/48kHz Audio limitation discussion found HERE

Basically it's a good idea sticking with a Intel or AMLogic (S9xx) LibreELEC Kodi platform if using FLAC and/or PCM Multichannel (>2.0) Audio.

EDIT:
The RPi 3 can do Multichannel (>2.0) FLAC to PCM decode as well but I believe it is limited to 48/96kHz for PCM 5.1/7.1 Audio output.
Not sure how much of a Audio limitation that is.

[wesk05]

I read that it doesnt support flac passthrough(which my receiver could decode) and I have most of my music as flac format. Will this be an issue with the playback/playability of my music or will KODI decode the flac and send it to my receiver?

No player or AVR supports HDMI FLAC passthrough (my definition: passthrough - passes the audio in the same format that it is encoded). That said, Minix U1 doesn't support multichannel PCM output. Multichannel audio that has to be decoded to PCM will be output as stereo PCM or can be transcoded to Dolby Digital 5.1 in Kodi/SPMC (which basically defeats the purpose of FLAC audio).