XBMC for Linux port to PowerPC (PPC) CPU-architecture?

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drewjacks0n Offline
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Post: #16
Is OpenGL only used in rendering the GUI? If so I wonder how feasible it would be to make a skin, or gui that used very little rendering. The PS3 can do software rendering of opengl enough to run older games, surely a toned down skin/gui would be doable.

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topfs2 Offline
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Post: #17
Well we have a ./configure --disable-opengl which is to run without the GL but note it's rediciosly CPU intensive, mostly due to the fades in home so it's probably possible to create a theme that doesn't do this. Note that most of the functionality however doesn't work on 2d, mainly movies is a nogo now but a patch can probably make this work aswell the it would work.

But it's a nogo presently.

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rodalpho Offline
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Post: #18
The whole thing is totally doable, just need to find a developer willing to commit to porting and ongoing development support of XBMC on an essentially dead platform. Good luck.
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drewjacks0n Offline
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Post: #19
1) Xbox 360 (3.2 GHz PPC Tri-Core Xenon)

2) Playstation 3 (3.2 GHz Cell Broadband Engine PPC)

3) Wii (IBM PowerPC-based "Broadway")

Yup, it's dead alright.

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rodalpho Offline
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Post: #20
1) have to hack it (illegal) and limits the audience
2) A-OK if there's some way to access the GPU directly in PS3 linux
3) have to hack it, illegal, limits the audience, and too slow for HD anyway
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drewjacks0n Offline
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Post: #21
My point was that PowerPC architecture is not dead. If XBMC was ported to linuxppc, Devs would not need to worry about writing a native port for each console. Just so long as Linux ran on the device and there was a frontend option that did not use opengl (because from what I understand thats where opengl is used). So it seems to me that if core-dev got xbmc to compile on linuxppc they would essentially open up the doors for any linux on <insert console name> group to run xbmc.

Also.... The PS3 can handle simple software rendering of OpenGL, which would be sufficient for a "dumbed down skin". http://www.mesa3d.org/

And yes, running linux is "illegal" on the Wii and X360.. but isn't running unsigned code precisely how this project got its start?

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Gamester17 Offline
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Post: #22
IMHO a PPC Mac Mini port is a smart first development step for one developer who want to make it easier later for other developers in the future to port XBMC to any PPC based console out there, ...the fact that normal end-users who already own a PPC Mac Mini would also benefit is just a bonus to eveyone IMO (bigger XBMC userbase will attract more developers which will lead to a better XBMC, everyone wins).

Please move the PlayStation 3 discussion to the existing topic-thread for it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=21849

Please move the Xbox360 discussion to the existing topic-thread for it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=9299

There is no topic thread for fully porting XBMC to the Nintendo Wii but feel free to start a new one.

drewjacks0n Wrote:Is OpenGL only used in rendering the GUI?
No, OpenGL is used for all rendering in XBMC for Linux, yes a dumbed down skin could be made (though it would no longer look great) but we need GPU hardware-acceleration for rendering video like a movie at an acceptable frame-rate, (same goes with visualizations and screensavers).

drewjacks0n Wrote:If so I wonder how feasible it would be to make a skin, or gui that used very little rendering.
The GUI is what makes XBMC into the software that we love/like today, the GUI engine would never be rewritten just to run XBMC on the PS3 or any other console, what is needed instead is a rendered that is hardware-accelerated by the GPU but does not use OpenGL, please continue this discussion in the existing topic-thread for XBMC on PS3 linked above (it already have all of this anwered and explained in detail).

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(This post was last modified: 2008-05-26 22:39 by Gamester17.)
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rodalpho Offline
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Post: #23
drewjacks0n Wrote:isn't running unsigned code precisely how this project got its start?
It is indeed, and one of the major advantages of the OGL port is its legality. No need to join IRC channels and connect to clandestine FTP sites to download the binaries, everything is clean and out in the open.
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drewjacks0n Offline
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Post: #24
Gamester17 Wrote:OpenGL is used for all rendering in XBMC for Linux, yes a dumbed down skin could be made (though it would no longer look great) but we need GPU hardware-acceleration for rendering video like a movie at an acceptable frame-rate, (same goes with visualizations and screensavers).

Ah ok, I did not know that, for some reason I was under the impression that my XBMC-Linux box was using only the CPU to render movies. Thank you for correcting me.

Gamester17 Wrote:The GUI is what makes XBMC into the software that we love/like today

The GUI for XBMC is amazing, but the reason (personally speaking) that I love XBMC, is it's ability to play video files (which it does extremely well). I do not think OpenGL is the only way to make a gui that looks decent, but when used, it really does look nice (like what XBMC has now).

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rodalpho Offline
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Post: #25
Anything can play video files, you can hook a remote into mplayer and play pretty much anything with ffmpeg just like XBMC. XBMC is nothing without its thoughtfully designed interface and library, they're what makes it such a joy to use.
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drewjacks0n Offline
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Post: #26
rodalpho Wrote:Anything can play video files, you can hook a remote into mplayer and play pretty much anything with ffmpeg just like XBMC. XBMC is nothing without its thoughtfully designed interface and library, they're what makes it such a joy to use.

Good point.

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Gamester17 Offline
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Post: #27
Gamester17 Wrote:I do not think OpenGL is the only way to make a gui that looks decent
I don't think you fully understand the concept yet; OpenGL is only used for rendering, rendering meaning drawing the picture on the display, like on the Xbox we use Direct3D instead but the result is the same. OpenGL has nothing to do with making the GUI look in a particular may, OpenGL is just one (out of many) methods of accessing the hardware-accelerated capabilities of the GPU, look wise it does not matter which method we use, OpenGL just happen to be cross-platform compatible, well documented and reasonably fast and that is why it was chosen. It is the "hardware-accelerated" bit that is the important, it off-loads parts of the rendering from the CPU to the GPU (leaving more clock-cycles in the CPU available to do other things like for example decoding an encoded video).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_pipeline

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topfs2 Offline
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Post: #28
I've mocked around with the SDL_2D version of XBMC a few months back and I learned that the most CPU intensive part are:
*Fade (Like the multiimages on the homescreen in PM3)
*Skewed textues (When the image is a box but is projected on screen ie as a parallelogram)

If one create a skin without these and tweak the code abit a reasonable amount of speed vs cpu power can be reached, mind you the OGL is much less CPU intense Smile

For Movies I see no real problem with SDL_2D aslong as DVDPlayer can create the OpenGL textures in real time it should be able to create these for SDL in about the same speed and SDL is not that slow presenting them, but I haven't fiddled with the movie in SDL.

/Topfs2

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araldor Offline
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Post: #29
I'm really interested in seeing how much work it would take to do a powerpc linux port of XBMC. This would lay the foundation for a PS3 version. Then, when the gallium3d cell driver matures we'll be able to do OpenGL in linux on the SPUs.

There are also some alternative efforts (spu-medialib) for performing many of the tasks that XBMC uses OpenGL for (upscaling, yuv 2 rgb conversion).

Is anyone interested in working with me to do a survey of the x86-isms in XBMC to see how bad the effort would be? We could start by reviewing the 3rd party libraries to verify that they bulid on powerpc, and then we could move on to the xbmc source. I know there's a lot of x86 assembly used in various places, and I'm sure we'll uncover some 32/64 bit issues.
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Gamester17 Offline
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Post: #30
araldor Wrote:Then, when the gallium3d cell driver matures we'll be able to do OpenGL in linux on the SPUs.

There are also some alternative efforts (spu-medialib) for performing many of the tasks that XBMC uses OpenGL for (upscaling, yuv 2 rgb conversion).
Again, please keep the PlayStation 3 discussion to the existing topic-thread for it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=21849


araldor Wrote:Is anyone interested in working with me to do a survey of the x86-isms in XBMC to see how bad the effort would be? We could start by reviewing the 3rd party libraries to verify that they bulid on powerpc, and then we could move on to the xbmc source. I know there's a lot of x86 assembly used in various places, and I'm sure we'll uncover some 32/64 bit issues.
Please go right ahead.

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